4 ms·

Whatever you think about AGI, this is a dumb paper. So many words and references to say - what. If you can't articulate your point in a few sentences you probab

Whatever you think about AGI, this is a dumb paper. So many words and references to say - what. If you can't articulate your point in a few sentences you probably don't have a point. There are all kinds of assumptions being made in the study about how AI systems work, about what people "mean" then they talk about AGI etc. The article starts out talking about white supremacy and replacing women. This isn't a proof. This is a social sciences paper dressed up with numbers. Honestly - Computer Science has given us more clues about how the human mind might work than cognitive science ever did.

aaroninsf 2y ago
+1 no notes.
falcor84 2y ago
I thought you were exaggerating, but wow, they really did. > Among the more troublesome meanings of ‘AI’, perhaps, is as the ideology that it is desirable to replace humans (or, specifically women) by artificial systems (Erscoi et al., 2023) and, generally, ‘AI’ as a way to advance capitalist, kyriarchal, authoritarian and/or white supremacist goals (Birhane & Guest, 2021; Crawford, 2021; Erscoi et al., 2023; Gebru & Torres, 2024; Kalluri, 2020; Spanton & Guest, 2022; Stark & Hutson, 2022; McQuillan, 2022). Contemporary guises of ‘AI’ as idea, system, or field are also sometimes known under the label ‘Machine Learning’ (ML), and a currently dominant view of AI advocates machine learning methods not just as a practical method for generating domain-specific artificial systems, but also as a royal road to AGI (Bubeck et al., 2023; DeepMind, 2023; OpenAI, 2023). Later in the paper, when we refer to AI-as-engineering, we specifically mean the project of trying to create an AGI system through a machine learning approach. [0] But it did lead me to learn a new word - "Kyriarchy" (apparently being "an intersectional extension of the idea of patriarchy beyond gender")[1], so I have that going for me today. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42113-024-00217-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42113-024-00217-5 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy
- somedude895 2y ago
  > Kyriarchy I've honestly stopped looking up these modern terms when I come across them because lately any that I've looked up were made up to serve a political or social agenda (always the same one), and reading them always turns out to be a waste of time that has me roll my eyes.
  - hmcq6 2y ago
    I rolled my eyes when I first saw it but I know thats what people want so I looked into it. > For example, in a context where gender is the primary privileged position (e.g. patriarchy, matriarchy), gender becomes the nodal point through which sexuality, race, and class are experienced. In a context where class is the primary privileged position (i.e. classism), gender and race are experienced through class dynamics. It actually makes a lot of sense, I just don't know that we need a unique word for this phenomenon. It's just saying that me as an Irish Catholic doesn't have to fear Anti-Catholic discrimination when surrounded by other Catholics, I'm more likely to face class discrimination or sexism or some other in-group/out-group based hierarchy in that particular situation than I am to face Anti-Catholic discrimination. Edit: A better example is that you're more likely to face Patriarchal discrimination in say the gym where having XY chromosomes can actually effect the ceiling on your ability and you're more likely to face Anti-LGBT discrimination while you're visiting the Vatican. Basically, the venue and the composition of participants in an activity or event determine which hierarchical structure will be more likely to present itself.
    - castigatio 2y ago
      I think this is a bit like coming up with words to expand on the concept of poop. Poop is a necessary and useful word. It describes something you get on your shoe. Or something you may have to suddenly rush out to do. However if I became so intensely immersed in the world of poop that I needed to invent new words to describe the subtleties of it - you might not admire my efforts or where I choose to place my attention. We have words like oppression that seem to be understood and to work well. Are we truly doing anything useful by breaking down the idea of oppression into ever more granular descriptions of it? I say - poop works fine.
Hercuros 2y ago
I don’t think speculation about AGI is possible on a rigorous mathematical basis right now. And people who do expect AGI to happen (soon) are often happy to be convinced by much poorer types of argument and evidence than presented in this paper (e.g. handwaving arguments about model size or just the fact that ChatGPT can do some impressive things).
- castigatio 2y ago
  Indeed - its pretty absurd.
farrarstan 2y ago
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aaroninsf 2y ago

+1 no notes.

falcor84 2y ago

I thought you were exaggerating, but wow, they really did. > Among the more troublesome meanings of ‘AI’, perhaps, is as the ideology that it is desirable to replace humans (or, specifically women) by artificial systems (Erscoi et al., 2023) and, generally, ‘AI’ as a way to advance capitalist, kyriarchal, authoritarian and/or white supremacist goals (Birhane & Guest, 2021; Crawford, 2021; Erscoi et al., 2023; Gebru & Torres, 2024; Kalluri, 2020; Spanton & Guest, 2022; Stark & Hutson, 2022; McQuillan, 2022). Contemporary guises of ‘AI’ as idea, system, or field are also sometimes known under the label ‘Machine Learning’ (ML), and a currently dominant view of AI advocates machine learning methods not just as a practical method for generating domain-specific artificial systems, but also as a royal road to AGI (Bubeck et al., 2023; DeepMind, 2023; OpenAI, 2023). Later in the paper, when we refer to AI-as-engineering, we specifically mean the project of trying to create an AGI system through a machine learning approach. [0] But it did lead me to learn a new word - "Kyriarchy" (apparently being "an intersectional extension of the idea of patriarchy beyond gender")[1], so I have that going for me today. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42113-024-00217-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42113-024-00217-5 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy

somedude895 2y ago
> Kyriarchy I've honestly stopped looking up these modern terms when I come across them because lately any that I've looked up were made up to serve a political or social agenda (always the same one), and reading them always turns out to be a waste of time that has me roll my eyes.
- hmcq6 2y ago
  I rolled my eyes when I first saw it but I know thats what people want so I looked into it. > For example, in a context where gender is the primary privileged position (e.g. patriarchy, matriarchy), gender becomes the nodal point through which sexuality, race, and class are experienced. In a context where class is the primary privileged position (i.e. classism), gender and race are experienced through class dynamics. It actually makes a lot of sense, I just don't know that we need a unique word for this phenomenon. It's just saying that me as an Irish Catholic doesn't have to fear Anti-Catholic discrimination when surrounded by other Catholics, I'm more likely to face class discrimination or sexism or some other in-group/out-group based hierarchy in that particular situation than I am to face Anti-Catholic discrimination. Edit: A better example is that you're more likely to face Patriarchal discrimination in say the gym where having XY chromosomes can actually effect the ceiling on your ability and you're more likely to face Anti-LGBT discrimination while you're visiting the Vatican. Basically, the venue and the composition of participants in an activity or event determine which hierarchical structure will be more likely to present itself.
  - castigatio 2y ago
    I think this is a bit like coming up with words to expand on the concept of poop. Poop is a necessary and useful word. It describes something you get on your shoe. Or something you may have to suddenly rush out to do. However if I became so intensely immersed in the world of poop that I needed to invent new words to describe the subtleties of it - you might not admire my efforts or where I choose to place my attention. We have words like oppression that seem to be understood and to work well. Are we truly doing anything useful by breaking down the idea of oppression into ever more granular descriptions of it? I say - poop works fine.

Hercuros 2y ago

I don’t think speculation about AGI is possible on a rigorous mathematical basis right now. And people who do expect AGI to happen (soon) are often happy to be convinced by much poorer types of argument and evidence than presented in this paper (e.g. handwaving arguments about model size or just the fact that ChatGPT can do some impressive things).

castigatio 2y ago
Indeed - its pretty absurd.

farrarstan 2y ago

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