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When people say, "The Deep State", what they really mean is, "unelected lifelong government employees who can create regulations that have the force of law". A

When people say, "The Deep State", what they really mean is, "unelected lifelong government employees who can create regulations that have the force of law". And that is a problem. Congress makes laws, not government agencies like the FDA, EPA, USDA, etc. We've seen a near-total abdication of responsibility from Congress on highly charged matters that'll piss off someone, somewhere in their constituency, because they'd rather allow the President to make an Executive Order, or a bureaucrat somewhere to create a rule or regulation that will have the same effect. It's disgusting, shameful, and the American people need to do better, frankly. We need to demand Congress do their jobs. So many of our problems can be solved if these people weren't concerned about being re-elected. Elected positions are supposed to be something you take time out of your life to do for a number of years, then you go back to your livelihood - not something you do for the entirety of your life.

warkdarrior 2y ago
Have you considered electing better representatives for yourself to Congress It's easy to blame to Congress, but in my view US Congress nowadays is a perfect reflection of the electorate, where all sides approach all problems as "Someone [not me] should do something about this thing I do not like." Congressmen are then elected and approach it the same way.
maicro 2y ago
That's one of the difficult things when dealing with any sort of conspiracy theory or major discussion about fundamental issues with government - there _are_ significant issues, so straight dismissing "The Deep State" isn't possible because there actually are instances of that sort of fundamental corruption. But then you have people who jump from those very real issues to moon landing hoax conspiracies, flat earth conspiracies, etc. etc., using that grain of truth of The Deep State to justify whatever belief they want. It's related to a fundamental issue with discussing scientific principles in a non-scientific setting - yes, gravity is a _theory_ in the scientific sense, but that doesn't you can say "scientists don't know anything! they say gravity is just a theory, so what's stopping us from floating off into space tomorrow!?". Adapt the examples there to whatever you want... And yes, that sounds fairly judgy of me - I am, alas, human, thus subject to the same fallacies and traps that I recognize in others, and being aware of those issues doesn't guarantee I can avoid them...
rhizome 2y ago
Congress makes laws, not government agencies like the FDA, EPA, USDA, etc. What are some examples of laws created by unelected people?
- pc86 2y ago
  Federal regulations hold the force and effect of law. The listed agencies (and all others) all have thousands of pages of rules and regulations that, if violated, are federal crimes that come with serious financial penalties as well as jail time. That Congress has given some measure of its Constitutional lawmaking ability to federal agencies is not a partisan statement and is not debated as a matter of fact, the question is just whether you think it's okay / legal or not.
pc86 2y ago
This is exactly why there should be aggressive term limits for all offices. A 3-4 term limit for all offices regardless of the length of your term (e.g. 6-8 for the House, 18-24 years for Senate, etc.) would still allow exemplary public servants to spend their life in public service if their constituencies demand it. Even at 3 terms that's over 3 decades if you spend 3 terms in the House, 3 in the Senate, and 2 as President. If you know you have at most 6 years in the House to make a difference you're much more likely to actually try to make a difference. I think somewhat counter-intuitively but related, members of Congress need to be paid more to attract successful people. If you're making $600k/yr as a surgeon you have very little incentive to leave your job to make $175k/yr as a member of Congress.

warkdarrior 2y ago

Have you considered electing better representatives for yourself to Congress It's easy to blame to Congress, but in my view US Congress nowadays is a perfect reflection of the electorate, where all sides approach all problems as "Someone [not me] should do something about this thing I do not like." Congressmen are then elected and approach it the same way.

maicro 2y ago

That's one of the difficult things when dealing with any sort of conspiracy theory or major discussion about fundamental issues with government - there _are_ significant issues, so straight dismissing "The Deep State" isn't possible because there actually are instances of that sort of fundamental corruption. But then you have people who jump from those very real issues to moon landing hoax conspiracies, flat earth conspiracies, etc. etc., using that grain of truth of The Deep State to justify whatever belief they want. It's related to a fundamental issue with discussing scientific principles in a non-scientific setting - yes, gravity is a _theory_ in the scientific sense, but that doesn't you can say "scientists don't know anything! they say gravity is just a theory, so what's stopping us from floating off into space tomorrow!?". Adapt the examples there to whatever you want... And yes, that sounds fairly judgy of me - I am, alas, human, thus subject to the same fallacies and traps that I recognize in others, and being aware of those issues doesn't guarantee I can avoid them...

rhizome 2y ago

Congress makes laws, not government agencies like the FDA, EPA, USDA, etc. What are some examples of laws created by unelected people?

pc86 2y ago
Federal regulations hold the force and effect of law. The listed agencies (and all others) all have thousands of pages of rules and regulations that, if violated, are federal crimes that come with serious financial penalties as well as jail time. That Congress has given some measure of its Constitutional lawmaking ability to federal agencies is not a partisan statement and is not debated as a matter of fact, the question is just whether you think it's okay / legal or not.

pc86 2y ago

This is exactly why there should be aggressive term limits for all offices. A 3-4 term limit for all offices regardless of the length of your term (e.g. 6-8 for the House, 18-24 years for Senate, etc.) would still allow exemplary public servants to spend their life in public service if their constituencies demand it. Even at 3 terms that's over 3 decades if you spend 3 terms in the House, 3 in the Senate, and 2 as President. If you know you have at most 6 years in the House to make a difference you're much more likely to actually try to make a difference. I think somewhat counter-intuitively but related, members of Congress need to be paid more to attract successful people. If you're making $600k/yr as a surgeon you have very little incentive to leave your job to make $175k/yr as a member of Congress.