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Can anyone explain why something like this is necessary on a Macbook, but when I use my airpods with my iPhone I seem to get high quality audio and microphone u

Can anyone explain why something like this is necessary on a Macbook, but when I use my airpods with my iPhone I seem to get high quality audio and microphone usage at the same time?

cstrahan 2y ago
I believe it’s because macOS uses a worse audio codec: https://gist.github.com/dvf/3771e58085568559c429d05ccc339219 https://gist.github.com/dvf/3771e58085568559c429d05ccc339219
- lxgr 2y ago
  I don't think the AirPods support anything better than mSBC for bidirectional audio on iOS either. (AAC and aptX are only unidirectional, and macOS already supports AAC and uses it for the AirPods.) But maybe iOS just uses the built-in microphone more often to avoid having to switch away from (high quality) unidirectional audio on Bluetooth?
  - kokada 2y ago
    Considering it is Apple they could also be using a proprietary profile that side-steps this issue, especially since they created their own Bluetooth chip (Apple Hx). But again, I don't know if this is true or not since I don't have an iPhone to test.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      The second-generation Airpods Pro even do feature a custom low-latency audio codec, but it's apparently only used for the Vision Pro (which is a real shame, as it would be extremely useful for latency-critical things like playing rhythm games on iOS and macOS as well). On the standards side, there's Bluetooth LE audio, which also offers very low latency, but that might actually require hardware changes (I believe there's reliance on some hardware layer changes).
- kokada 2y ago
  Not really, the main issue is the Bluetooth profile[1] here. HFP is the profile used for bidirectional (i.e.: when you're using both the headset and microfone) while A2DP is the profile for unidirectional audio (i.e.: when you're only listening). The main issue is that HFP uses a much worse codec than A2DP, that is optimised for voice and not music. Newer versions of HFP supports mSBC that is a simplified version of SBC (the main codec used in A2DP) that is better but still significantly worse than SBC (and SBC is not considered a good codec anyway). However I can't really answer OP question. I am not sure how iPhone get a better sound quality if what OP is saying is true (I don't have an iPhone). What I know is that in Linux you can activate mSBC and this improves the quality a lot when using HFP profile, but it is still significantly worse than anything A2DP has to offer. I also think Android uses mSBC if available, but I am not completely sure. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles
  - mrtksn 2y ago
    I believe this is the correct answer.
    - lloeki 2y ago
      I can confirm it is, and all things considered reasons go slightly beyond just the codec, see my nearby comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41705258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41705258
wolrah 2y ago
> Can anyone explain why something like this is necessary on a Macbook, but when I use my airpods with my iPhone I seem to get high quality audio and microphone usage at the same time? Are you sure? How often does your phone have the microphone active while simultaneously continuing to play audio? When the mic is active on a phone it almost always pauses music or video or whatever you're listening to. At that point it can switch modes and then switch back when you're done and go back to music. On a PC (meaning the overall category of personal computers including Macs, not just a Wintel machine) there isn't that sort of integration. If you start a VoIP call with music going the music just keeps going, so the mode switch is obvious.

Can anyone explain why something like this is necessary on a Macbook, but when I use my airpods with my iPhone I seem to get high quality audio and microphone usage at the same time?

cstrahan 2y ago

I believe it’s because macOS uses a worse audio codec: https://gist.github.com/dvf/3771e58085568559c429d05ccc339219 https://gist.github.com/dvf/3771e58085568559c429d05ccc339219

lxgr 2y ago
I don't think the AirPods support anything better than mSBC for bidirectional audio on iOS either. (AAC and aptX are only unidirectional, and macOS already supports AAC and uses it for the AirPods.) But maybe iOS just uses the built-in microphone more often to avoid having to switch away from (high quality) unidirectional audio on Bluetooth?
- kokada 2y ago
  Considering it is Apple they could also be using a proprietary profile that side-steps this issue, especially since they created their own Bluetooth chip (Apple Hx). But again, I don't know if this is true or not since I don't have an iPhone to test.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    The second-generation Airpods Pro even do feature a custom low-latency audio codec, but it's apparently only used for the Vision Pro (which is a real shame, as it would be extremely useful for latency-critical things like playing rhythm games on iOS and macOS as well). On the standards side, there's Bluetooth LE audio, which also offers very low latency, but that might actually require hardware changes (I believe there's reliance on some hardware layer changes).
kokada 2y ago
Not really, the main issue is the Bluetooth profile[1] here. HFP is the profile used for bidirectional (i.e.: when you're using both the headset and microfone) while A2DP is the profile for unidirectional audio (i.e.: when you're only listening). The main issue is that HFP uses a much worse codec than A2DP, that is optimised for voice and not music. Newer versions of HFP supports mSBC that is a simplified version of SBC (the main codec used in A2DP) that is better but still significantly worse than SBC (and SBC is not considered a good codec anyway). However I can't really answer OP question. I am not sure how iPhone get a better sound quality if what OP is saying is true (I don't have an iPhone). What I know is that in Linux you can activate mSBC and this improves the quality a lot when using HFP profile, but it is still significantly worse than anything A2DP has to offer. I also think Android uses mSBC if available, but I am not completely sure. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles
- mrtksn 2y ago
  I believe this is the correct answer.
  - lloeki 2y ago
    I can confirm it is, and all things considered reasons go slightly beyond just the codec, see my nearby comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41705258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41705258

wolrah 2y ago

> Can anyone explain why something like this is necessary on a Macbook, but when I use my airpods with my iPhone I seem to get high quality audio and microphone usage at the same time? Are you sure? How often does your phone have the microphone active while simultaneously continuing to play audio? When the mic is active on a phone it almost always pauses music or video or whatever you're listening to. At that point it can switch modes and then switch back when you're done and go back to music. On a PC (meaning the overall category of personal computers including Macs, not just a Wintel machine) there isn't that sort of integration. If you start a VoIP call with music going the music just keeps going, so the mode switch is obvious.