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There was a video, I don't remember who the host was but it was a STEM educator, who picked up a medieval sword at a museum (with permission) and remarked at ho

There was a video, I don't remember who the host was but it was a STEM educator, who picked up a medieval sword at a museum (with permission) and remarked at how light it was. Since then I've internally thought about how unrealistic so much of everything is. Of course it needs to be light, just like everything in modern day. They lug it around the countryside, swing it, etc. Heavy swords just don't make sense.

smogcutter 2y ago
In fairness, that misconception doesn’t just spring from imagination. Prop weapons generally are heavy, because they need to be thick to have blunt edges.
- vasco 2y ago
  I don't think something needs to be thick and heavy to be blunt, I've used (and I think many people have) blunt kitchen knives and sharp kitchen knives and without inspecting the blade edge I think it's very hard to tell. Sharpening a knife or sword also doesn't really change much in its weight from my layman knowledge.
  - pseudosaid 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - icegreentea2 2y ago
    "Blunt" in a stage fighting or practice sparring context is completely different from blunt in a kitchen context. You are still swinging these swords are very near full speed at another human being. In a stage context, they might be wearing very minimal protective gear. You blunt kitchen knife will cut through meat just fine if you overhand swing it down. For example, here's a practice sword that has 1/16th in (1.6mm!) thick edges: https://www.reliks.com/functional-european-swords/practical-knightly-sword/ https://www.reliks.com/functional-european-swords/practical-... With the degree of difference in edge thickness, you can probably see how the cross section of a sword (and therefore its weight) will vary substantially, especially if you keep the maximum thickness about the same. It's absolutely possible to craft these types of swords that are both safe and well approximate the real shapes and weights and handling of a "real" sword. But it's also easy to just... go for look and safety to try to save money.
    - vasco 2y ago
      Thanks for the insider knowledge!
  - watwut 2y ago
    Blunt kitchen knife is pretty sharp sword tho. I know as I got cut with a training sword - it was significantly more blunt then what you would call blunt kitchen knife.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Prop weapons can be made of plastic.
  - pseudosaid 2y ago
    they can be, but they were not as being recanted above. Prop weapons can be made of aerogel too but im not making a lame point about it.
- michaelt 2y ago
  It depends what your prop is aiming to simulate. $10 halloween costume prop? Hollow plastic, super light. Training weapon for self defence against knife attacks? Solid plastic, several times the thickness of a real knife, probably bright blue. Olympic fencing weapons, which simulate duelling? Pretty light, you only need a light touch to score a point and bending is desirable. Live Action Role Play where they want to whack each other, but not hard? Anime cosplay? They mostly go for foam-covered plastic which is kinda light, but they're often thick and also they often simulate unrealistically large weapons, so they can end up kinda heavy. Ornamental/replica things that are just for show? Could go either way. You could make an extra-light sword out of aluminium, or an extra-heavy ornate dagger out of pewter. Less steel means a lower material and shipping cost - but a bit more heft that feels realistic to buyers might get you better product reviews. Apparently some HEMA/renaissance fair folk wear full suits of metal armour, metal longswords that are blunt-but-authentically-weighted, then try to whack each other pretty hard? Looks like concussion city to me.
  - foobarian 2y ago
    I got a suit of chainmail at one point to possibly wear for Halloween/Renn fairs etc. It was heavy! I could not stand it for longer than about an hour, it was a real workout. Certainly made me gain new respect for all the stereotypical medieval knights wearing full metal armor suits.
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      Huh, wonder if you could turn that into a fitness fad for runners. Improve safety against attackers, get a better cardio workout. Forget Under Armour. Let’s go for Over Armor.
    - Sander_Marechal 2y ago
      Like replica swords, replica armour is also often too heavy. Especially maille (the correct term for chainmail). Proper maille has the rings riveted closed so you can use thin rings. Many cheap replicas use bent (butted) rings. They need to be thicker so they don't bend open. I have a full hauberk which goes to my knees with long sleeves. It weighs 6-ish kilo. Add a kilo for the coif. A decently made late medieval full plate armour is maybe 15-ish kilo complete with helmet. The heaviest armours are probably late 14th century armours. They are essentially an almost full plate over a (partial or full) maille hauberk. Some are maybe 25 kilo. That's still a lot less than the 40 or so kilo that modern soldiers lug around.
- idunnoman1222 2y ago
  You imagine you’ve held prop weapons
- lupusreal 2y ago
  I think some of these misconceptions appear in popular media predating the reenactment scene. Mark Twain in particular is guilty of it. Connecticut Yankee has a bunch of stuff like knights needing cranes to get on their horses and whatnot. The whole book is about how crude and simple minded medieval people were.
ulnarkressty 2y ago
I recommend to go to a medieval fair, there you can touch and handle melee weapons freely to get an idea how they feel. I remember that I once handled a parade sword which had a very thick and ornate blade, my arms were hurting immediately. Then the guy handed me his own short sword which was used in the fighting demonstrations and it was literally like picking up a can of beans: much lighter weight than expected and I couldn't feel at all the "length" of the blade when I swung it around - it was perfectly balanced in the hand.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  Medieval fair weapons still tend to be heavier than historical weapons because they (at least most of the ones that are handed to the public) are blunt.
  - eddd-ddde 2y ago
    Surely taking a sharp sword and blunting its edge yields a safe weapon of similar weight, right? Are they purposely making them more massive?
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Depends on how blunt. With momentum behind it you can overcome a lot of bluntness so you want it even more blunt...
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      They not only have a blunt edge but also a blunt tip. To appreciably blunt the tip while keeping the same length you have to add more metal to the tip.
  - 0xbadcafebee 2y ago
    And because they use crap alloys and their forging technique is crap. Customer demand drives the quality of the product. A thousand years ago, the customer demanded lightweight, durable, sharp tools, in order to survive their profession. Today, they just want something that looks and feels cool. (For comparison: a Renn Faire sword sells for $200, and a traditionally-made Japanese sword costs as much as a car)
brudgers 2y ago
Here is Adam Savage picking up swords and making similar remarks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJypHnsEn8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJypHnsEn8o Maybe that is what you saw.

smogcutter 2y ago

In fairness, that misconception doesn’t just spring from imagination. Prop weapons generally are heavy, because they need to be thick to have blunt edges.

vasco 2y ago
I don't think something needs to be thick and heavy to be blunt, I've used (and I think many people have) blunt kitchen knives and sharp kitchen knives and without inspecting the blade edge I think it's very hard to tell. Sharpening a knife or sword also doesn't really change much in its weight from my layman knowledge.
- pseudosaid 2y ago
  [flagged]
- icegreentea2 2y ago
  "Blunt" in a stage fighting or practice sparring context is completely different from blunt in a kitchen context. You are still swinging these swords are very near full speed at another human being. In a stage context, they might be wearing very minimal protective gear. You blunt kitchen knife will cut through meat just fine if you overhand swing it down. For example, here's a practice sword that has 1/16th in (1.6mm!) thick edges: https://www.reliks.com/functional-european-swords/practical-knightly-sword/ https://www.reliks.com/functional-european-swords/practical-... With the degree of difference in edge thickness, you can probably see how the cross section of a sword (and therefore its weight) will vary substantially, especially if you keep the maximum thickness about the same. It's absolutely possible to craft these types of swords that are both safe and well approximate the real shapes and weights and handling of a "real" sword. But it's also easy to just... go for look and safety to try to save money.
  - vasco 2y ago
    Thanks for the insider knowledge!
- watwut 2y ago
  Blunt kitchen knife is pretty sharp sword tho. I know as I got cut with a training sword - it was significantly more blunt then what you would call blunt kitchen knife.
WalterBright 2y ago
Prop weapons can be made of plastic.
- pseudosaid 2y ago
  they can be, but they were not as being recanted above. Prop weapons can be made of aerogel too but im not making a lame point about it.
michaelt 2y ago
It depends what your prop is aiming to simulate. $10 halloween costume prop? Hollow plastic, super light. Training weapon for self defence against knife attacks? Solid plastic, several times the thickness of a real knife, probably bright blue. Olympic fencing weapons, which simulate duelling? Pretty light, you only need a light touch to score a point and bending is desirable. Live Action Role Play where they want to whack each other, but not hard? Anime cosplay? They mostly go for foam-covered plastic which is kinda light, but they're often thick and also they often simulate unrealistically large weapons, so they can end up kinda heavy. Ornamental/replica things that are just for show? Could go either way. You could make an extra-light sword out of aluminium, or an extra-heavy ornate dagger out of pewter. Less steel means a lower material and shipping cost - but a bit more heft that feels realistic to buyers might get you better product reviews. Apparently some HEMA/renaissance fair folk wear full suits of metal armour, metal longswords that are blunt-but-authentically-weighted, then try to whack each other pretty hard? Looks like concussion city to me.
- foobarian 2y ago
  I got a suit of chainmail at one point to possibly wear for Halloween/Renn fairs etc. It was heavy! I could not stand it for longer than about an hour, it was a real workout. Certainly made me gain new respect for all the stereotypical medieval knights wearing full metal armor suits.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Huh, wonder if you could turn that into a fitness fad for runners. Improve safety against attackers, get a better cardio workout. Forget Under Armour. Let’s go for Over Armor.
  - Sander_Marechal 2y ago
    Like replica swords, replica armour is also often too heavy. Especially maille (the correct term for chainmail). Proper maille has the rings riveted closed so you can use thin rings. Many cheap replicas use bent (butted) rings. They need to be thicker so they don't bend open. I have a full hauberk which goes to my knees with long sleeves. It weighs 6-ish kilo. Add a kilo for the coif. A decently made late medieval full plate armour is maybe 15-ish kilo complete with helmet. The heaviest armours are probably late 14th century armours. They are essentially an almost full plate over a (partial or full) maille hauberk. Some are maybe 25 kilo. That's still a lot less than the 40 or so kilo that modern soldiers lug around.
idunnoman1222 2y ago
You imagine you’ve held prop weapons
lupusreal 2y ago
I think some of these misconceptions appear in popular media predating the reenactment scene. Mark Twain in particular is guilty of it. Connecticut Yankee has a bunch of stuff like knights needing cranes to get on their horses and whatnot. The whole book is about how crude and simple minded medieval people were.

ulnarkressty 2y ago

I recommend to go to a medieval fair, there you can touch and handle melee weapons freely to get an idea how they feel. I remember that I once handled a parade sword which had a very thick and ornate blade, my arms were hurting immediately. Then the guy handed me his own short sword which was used in the fighting demonstrations and it was literally like picking up a can of beans: much lighter weight than expected and I couldn't feel at all the "length" of the blade when I swung it around - it was perfectly balanced in the hand.

littlestymaar 2y ago
Medieval fair weapons still tend to be heavier than historical weapons because they (at least most of the ones that are handed to the public) are blunt.
- eddd-ddde 2y ago
  Surely taking a sharp sword and blunting its edge yields a safe weapon of similar weight, right? Are they purposely making them more massive?
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Depends on how blunt. With momentum behind it you can overcome a lot of bluntness so you want it even more blunt...
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    They not only have a blunt edge but also a blunt tip. To appreciably blunt the tip while keeping the same length you have to add more metal to the tip.
- 0xbadcafebee 2y ago
  And because they use crap alloys and their forging technique is crap. Customer demand drives the quality of the product. A thousand years ago, the customer demanded lightweight, durable, sharp tools, in order to survive their profession. Today, they just want something that looks and feels cool. (For comparison: a Renn Faire sword sells for $200, and a traditionally-made Japanese sword costs as much as a car)

brudgers 2y ago

Here is Adam Savage picking up swords and making similar remarks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJypHnsEn8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJypHnsEn8o Maybe that is what you saw.