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I remember all the hate USA got when it didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol. Its emissions have fallen ever since then, despite population rising by a quarter.
by rr808 2y ago
I remember all the hate USA got when it didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol. Its emissions have fallen ever since then, despite population rising by a quarter.
- kaonashi 2y agoeasy to cut emissions when you deindustrialize
- rr808 2y agoYes that helps but more important was the fracking revolution that replaced a lot of coal with gas.
- jellicle 2y agoProbably the easiest way would have been to draw a line around each factory in the US, declare that those now counted as outside-US for emissions purposes, and then declare that now the US was a zero-emissions country. Done and dusted, problem solved.
- wakawaka28 2y agoTake it up with China. They are building tons of coal plants as we speak, and also eating our lunch in trade. Edit: I got a "posting too fast" nonsense message. So here is my response to "solar is cheaper than coal, they are fools": China has a TON of solar panels and batteries. They make most of them. So they apparently think coal is worth it anyway. If coal was more expensive or worse overall, theu would be absolute suckers to ship their product to us.
- landryraccoon 2y agoIf they are still building a ton of coal they’re making a colossally foolish mistake. Solar is already far cheaper than coal for new installations, and the price is still falling.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoThey're building coal peaker plants to complement the massive amount of solar they're building. The capacity factor of their coal plants has halved at the same time the number of plants has doubled -- those coal plants just run at night. Up until this year coal has been cheaper than batteries for this task. That changed this year and they're now building some very large battery farms and i invasive their coal builds will drop.
- ProxCoques 2y ago> That changed this year and they're now building some very large battery farms and i invasive their coal builds will drop. This is an under-considered point: just because energy sources like coal or solar, etc. are being installed NOW doesn't mean they will be there forever. Here in the UK, there is often a lot of opposition to solar and wind farms. But I would expect those eventually to be phased out in the same way as coal once better/cheaper forms of generation come along.
- wakawaka28 2y agoWith all of the AI demands for electricity, as well as the strategic importance of 24/7 power production, you should not hold your breath for coal plants to be decommissioned.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoAI and crypto uses a lot of electricity in relative terms, not in absolute terms. If AI and crypto use 2% of a country's electricity, that's a big deal relative to the average growth in electricity usage of 1% per annum. But the challenge is converting 100% of the power to carbon-free. If you can do 100% you can do 102%.
- ProxCoques 2y agoLiterally on the day you posted that comment: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/sep/30/end-of-an-era-as-britains-last-coal-fired-power-plant-shuts-down https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/sep/30/end-of-an-e...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- magicalhippo 2y agoHow much of that is due to outsourced production though?
- Projectiboga 2y agoOur modern lights, screens and appliances all use less energy than 30 years ago.
- kibwen 2y agoAnd as a result we're using our lights, screens, and appliances far more than we were 30 years ago.
- adddalain 2y ago[dead]
- cgh 2y agoUS emissions peaked in 2007 and have since fallen to 1980s levels: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=52380 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=52380 2021 reversed this trend. Guess why?
- wakawaka28 2y agoNo, we aren't really. Did you ever hear someone say they couldn't use their computer or TV because it uses too much power? How about refrigerators? Air conditioners might be in that category, but only the poorest people would use an AC less because of cost.
- jltsiren 2y agoThe US target in the Kyoto Protocol was a 7% reduction from the 1990 baseline in 2008-2012. That target has still not been reached, because the emissions continued growing until the mid-2000s.
- addicted 2y agoPurely logically that means nothing. It’s like saying “John refused to do chemotherapy yesterday and he’s still alive today”. Yeah, he had some improvement. That doesn’t mean anything about whether or not a certain action would have led to more improvement or not. Further, specifically regd. The Kyoto protocol, the largest economy in the world not signing the Kyoto Protocol or exiting the Paris agreement has massive knock on effects on other countries as well. Their leaders will find it much more difficult to push better policies and can easily refuse being bound to actual targets because why should they do it if the largest economy in the world doesn’t.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoThe Kyoto protocols contained three market based emissions reduction schemes of the type that this research shows to have meaningful impacts.