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On an amusing note, I've read something similar: Everything that works stops being called philosophy. Science and math being the two familiar examples.

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nine_k 2y ago
I won't say that things like stoicism or humanism never worked. But they never got to the level of strict logical or experimental verifiability. Physics may be hard science, but the very notion of hard science, hypotheses, demand to replicate, demand to be able to falsify, etc, are all philosophy.
benterix 2y ago
There is a reason for that. People who inquired into the actual functioning of the world used to be called philosophers. That's why so many foundations of mathematics actually come from philosophers. The split happened around the 17th century. Newton still called his monumental work "Natural Philosophy", not "Physics".
benrutter 2y ago
Just in case anyone's curious, this is from Bertrand Russell's "the history of philosophy". > As soon as definite knowledge concerning any subject becomes possible, this subject ceases to be called philosophy, and becomes a separate science. I'm not actually sure I agree with it, especially in light of less provable schools of science like string theory or some branches of economics, but it's a great idea.
- xenospn 2y ago
  Is this why almost all CompSci PhDs are actually “doctor of philosophy”?
  - lostphilosopher 2y ago
    PhD itself is an abbreviation for "Doctor of Philosophy." The title is more about the original Greek "lover of wisdom" than about the modern academic discipline of philosophy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy Doctor is similar - in the US, when someone says "Doctor" they usually mean "Medical Doctor" but "Doctor" just comes from the Greek "teacher" / "scholar" which is more broad and the title can still be used officially and correctly for PhDs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title)
    - sapphicsnail 2y ago
      Just a little correction. Doctor is Latin and roughly means "someone who has learned a lot." Science also originally referred to knowledge. What we think of as "science" used to be called the natural sciences. Sometimes people get confused because I have a B.S. in Classics because science has lost that broader meaning.
      - tovej 2y ago
        It is still called natural science, but it used to be called natural philosophy. And it is interesting, as you say, that when it comes to Bachelor/Master/Doctor of Science/Art/Philosophy (even professor), these are all titles formed from arbitrary terms that have been enshrined by the institutions that give people these titles.
      - analog31 2y ago
        Indeed, in the Summa Theologica, Thomas Aquinas asks if theology is a science, and concludes that it is. He also gave lip service to logical rigor and falsifiability, in the latter case by encouraging the discipline of asking contrary questions and answering them. What he didn't do was appeal to empirical data, to any great extent. I think the reasoning behind "doctor of philosophy" may be lost to history. All knowing Wikipedia suggests that it didn't happen at once. My take was that the requirements for a modern PhD were added long after the title was adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy I suspect there was a time when a person could be well versed in multiple of what are now separated fields, and that you had to be a philosopher to make sense of science and math. Also, as science was flexing its own wings, claiming to be a philosopher might have been a way to gain an air of respectability, just like calling a physician "doctor" when the main impact of medicine was to kill rich people. Disclosure: PhD, but ambivalent about titles.
- WhyOhWhyQ 2y ago
  In college my Professor told me he was disappointed that the string theory hype was dying down because it made for a great subfield of algebraic geometry.
winwang 2y ago
Is the contrapositive of this "philsophers (are those who) do stuff which don't work"? :P
js8 2y ago
This is also true for consciousness or sentience. No matter how surprising abilities of non-human beings (and computer agents), it is something mysterious that only humans do.

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nine_k 2y ago

I won't say that things like stoicism or humanism never worked. But they never got to the level of strict logical or experimental verifiability. Physics may be hard science, but the very notion of hard science, hypotheses, demand to replicate, demand to be able to falsify, etc, are all philosophy.

benterix 2y ago

There is a reason for that. People who inquired into the actual functioning of the world used to be called philosophers. That's why so many foundations of mathematics actually come from philosophers. The split happened around the 17th century. Newton still called his monumental work "Natural Philosophy", not "Physics".

benrutter 2y ago

Just in case anyone's curious, this is from Bertrand Russell's "the history of philosophy". > As soon as definite knowledge concerning any subject becomes possible, this subject ceases to be called philosophy, and becomes a separate science. I'm not actually sure I agree with it, especially in light of less provable schools of science like string theory or some branches of economics, but it's a great idea.

xenospn 2y ago
Is this why almost all CompSci PhDs are actually “doctor of philosophy”?
- lostphilosopher 2y ago
  PhD itself is an abbreviation for "Doctor of Philosophy." The title is more about the original Greek "lover of wisdom" than about the modern academic discipline of philosophy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy Doctor is similar - in the US, when someone says "Doctor" they usually mean "Medical Doctor" but "Doctor" just comes from the Greek "teacher" / "scholar" which is more broad and the title can still be used officially and correctly for PhDs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(title)
  - sapphicsnail 2y ago
    Just a little correction. Doctor is Latin and roughly means "someone who has learned a lot." Science also originally referred to knowledge. What we think of as "science" used to be called the natural sciences. Sometimes people get confused because I have a B.S. in Classics because science has lost that broader meaning.
    - tovej 2y ago
      It is still called natural science, but it used to be called natural philosophy. And it is interesting, as you say, that when it comes to Bachelor/Master/Doctor of Science/Art/Philosophy (even professor), these are all titles formed from arbitrary terms that have been enshrined by the institutions that give people these titles.
    - analog31 2y ago
      Indeed, in the Summa Theologica, Thomas Aquinas asks if theology is a science, and concludes that it is. He also gave lip service to logical rigor and falsifiability, in the latter case by encouraging the discipline of asking contrary questions and answering them. What he didn't do was appeal to empirical data, to any great extent. I think the reasoning behind "doctor of philosophy" may be lost to history. All knowing Wikipedia suggests that it didn't happen at once. My take was that the requirements for a modern PhD were added long after the title was adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy I suspect there was a time when a person could be well versed in multiple of what are now separated fields, and that you had to be a philosopher to make sense of science and math. Also, as science was flexing its own wings, claiming to be a philosopher might have been a way to gain an air of respectability, just like calling a physician "doctor" when the main impact of medicine was to kill rich people. Disclosure: PhD, but ambivalent about titles.
WhyOhWhyQ 2y ago
In college my Professor told me he was disappointed that the string theory hype was dying down because it made for a great subfield of algebraic geometry.

winwang 2y ago

Is the contrapositive of this "philsophers (are those who) do stuff which don't work"? :P

js8 2y ago

This is also true for consciousness or sentience. No matter how surprising abilities of non-human beings (and computer agents), it is something mysterious that only humans do.