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In the US, the rate at which we install utility scale solar and wind is currently limited by how quickly we can upgrade the grid to support it, with interconnec

by pavon 2y ago

In the US, the rate at which we install utility scale solar and wind is currently limited by how quickly we can upgrade the grid to support it, with interconnect wait lists taking over 5 years in some areas[1]. Lifting tariffs wouldn't speed things up without fixing that first. [1] https://emp.lbl.gov/news/grid-connection-backlog-grows-30-2023-dominated-requests-solar-wind-and-energy-storage https://emp.lbl.gov/news/grid-connection-backlog-grows-30-20...

neltnerb 2y ago
The government also sets up regulations that protect incumbent electricity generators. Delaying a renewable facility from earning money for years when it has to borrow everything up front to start is extra deadly. I want proper environmental review though, to the extent it's possible to have that without it being weaponized by NIMBYs to simply run out the clock on a project's viability.
jaggederest 2y ago
Interconnect is going to be old news once batteries and balance-of-system costs get low enough. Local microgrids at the substation level are going to be the way to go, with only a minority of current traveling long distances (except for certain natural features, i.e. hydroelectric)
- hedora 2y ago
  Our car can run our all-electric house for days. We have more than one car. It’s not clear to me how much the power grid will matter in ten years. I can imagine cities using substations to route N solar installations to M bidirectional EV chargers, I guess. For places as or less dense than suburbs, it’s not obvious that it makes sense to bother.
  - naasking 2y ago
    The power grid will always be absolutely essential. I have no idea why you'd think otherwise.
    - hedora 2y ago
      Our home battery has had ~ 10 minutes of scheduled downtime in three years, and the solar array we put in (which was limited in size by our power company) would be enough for 90+% of days. The grid has had 30+ days of downtime in that time. If we had it fill the south half of our roof, that’d jump to 99-100%. For the remaining one percent, we could just drive to a fast charger to pick up enough electricity to run the house for 2-3 days in complete darkness. The power grid keeps burning cities down, and then they pass the cost on to consumers. Off grid is already more reliable than the grid, and the price of it keeps halving. At the same time, extreme weather events keep increasing the cost of the grid and lowering its reliability. If the power company would bury their lines, then all of these issues would go away, but that will never happen with our current political system.
      - adrianN 2y ago
        Do these figures include heat and hot water? In my climate these are the big energy consumers.
      - naasking 2y ago
        This argument is undermined by survivorship bias. I also don't believe the power grid keeps "burning cities down", this seems very specific to the area you live and the competency of the local government.
standeven 2y ago
It would still speed up behind-the-meter installations for existing grid connections. Rooftop solar, commercial and industrial customers adding battery energy storage, etc.

by pavon 2y ago

neltnerb 2y ago

The government also sets up regulations that protect incumbent electricity generators. Delaying a renewable facility from earning money for years when it has to borrow everything up front to start is extra deadly. I want proper environmental review though, to the extent it's possible to have that without it being weaponized by NIMBYs to simply run out the clock on a project's viability.

jaggederest 2y ago

Interconnect is going to be old news once batteries and balance-of-system costs get low enough. Local microgrids at the substation level are going to be the way to go, with only a minority of current traveling long distances (except for certain natural features, i.e. hydroelectric)

hedora 2y ago
Our car can run our all-electric house for days. We have more than one car. It’s not clear to me how much the power grid will matter in ten years. I can imagine cities using substations to route N solar installations to M bidirectional EV chargers, I guess. For places as or less dense than suburbs, it’s not obvious that it makes sense to bother.
- naasking 2y ago
  The power grid will always be absolutely essential. I have no idea why you'd think otherwise.
  - hedora 2y ago
    Our home battery has had ~ 10 minutes of scheduled downtime in three years, and the solar array we put in (which was limited in size by our power company) would be enough for 90+% of days. The grid has had 30+ days of downtime in that time. If we had it fill the south half of our roof, that’d jump to 99-100%. For the remaining one percent, we could just drive to a fast charger to pick up enough electricity to run the house for 2-3 days in complete darkness. The power grid keeps burning cities down, and then they pass the cost on to consumers. Off grid is already more reliable than the grid, and the price of it keeps halving. At the same time, extreme weather events keep increasing the cost of the grid and lowering its reliability. If the power company would bury their lines, then all of these issues would go away, but that will never happen with our current political system.
    - adrianN 2y ago
      Do these figures include heat and hot water? In my climate these are the big energy consumers.
    - naasking 2y ago
      This argument is undermined by survivorship bias. I also don't believe the power grid keeps "burning cities down", this seems very specific to the area you live and the competency of the local government.

standeven 2y ago

It would still speed up behind-the-meter installations for existing grid connections. Rooftop solar, commercial and industrial customers adding battery energy storage, etc.