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Ok, so are you one of the special Bangladeshis who escaped the backwater where they came from and somehow became an enlightened, modern, westernized credit to y

Ok, so are you one of the special Bangladeshis who escaped the backwater where they came from and somehow became an enlightened, modern, westernized credit to your country, or should we be sending you back because you’re ruining the vibes here?

rayiner 2y ago
I don’t think I should be allowed to vote. I grew up under almost ideal circumstances for assimilation and it took maybe halfway. Like most people, I’m becoming more like my dad as I get older, and my dad grew up in a village in Bangladesh. Maybe my kids should be allowed to vote. But they’ve got an American mom. On the other hand, studies show second generation Asians feel even less assimilated than first generation ones, and I’m seeing that in my oldest kid: https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/MicrosoftTeams-image-4.png https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Microso... Those feelings, which result in group conflict, are destructive to a democracy. You can’t build a well-ordered, efficient society when large numbers of people feel alienated. It’s a recipe for fighting over group conflicts instead of cooperating in an emotionally detached way on things like infrastructure. You can see the ethnic/religious loyalty play out when the rubber hits the road. My parents have been in the country for 35 years and probably won’t vote for Harris because of what’s happening in the Middle East. They are not people who care about human rights. They think the Rohingya are probably illegal Bangladeshi immigrants to Myanmar. They’re not Arab and haven’t stepped foot in a mosque in 35 years. But ethnic and religious collectivism runs deep in a way individualistic westerners cannot hope to understand.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  You know, there are women who strongly believe that they should not be enfranchised. Well, not just themselves, but that all women are incapable of making sound voting decisions. After all, women are not quite smart enough to understand the nuances of politics, and god forbid we make important decisions about war or healthcare that way. Moral panics about suffrage are nothing new. Notably, opposition often comes from the very group that is disenfranchised: humans are nothing if not aligned, and there's always someone who is going to hold an unusual, self-effacing position. I will give you credit for at least being consistent in your position when applying it to yourself, but that doesn't give it any more weight than the idea that women should not be allowed to vote. Or the newly liberated African-American men before them, or Native Americans who got their rights after. It's historically been a losing argument and it seems awfully unlikely that the current situation is any different. Also, while we're splitting hairs: I would consider many individualist westerners to not care about human rights. Actually I think a lot of the time most Americans are not voting for their rights, usually because they are mostly static until significant change happens to make them care (say, the civil rights movement, or the fall of Roe v. Wade). And I think some of them are actually actively against the cause of human rights, seeking to deprive and limit the extent to which they apply. I know people who won't vote for Harris because of what's happening in the Middle East. Some of them want more bombs going there and some want fewer! I think it is actually quite rude to assume that your cultural divisions are somehow special and unheard of amid the existing voting population, or that they are enough to destabilize the country. That does not seem to be supported by history.

rayiner 2y ago

I don’t think I should be allowed to vote. I grew up under almost ideal circumstances for assimilation and it took maybe halfway. Like most people, I’m becoming more like my dad as I get older, and my dad grew up in a village in Bangladesh. Maybe my kids should be allowed to vote. But they’ve got an American mom. On the other hand, studies show second generation Asians feel even less assimilated than first generation ones, and I’m seeing that in my oldest kid: https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/MicrosoftTeams-image-4.png https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Microso... Those feelings, which result in group conflict, are destructive to a democracy. You can’t build a well-ordered, efficient society when large numbers of people feel alienated. It’s a recipe for fighting over group conflicts instead of cooperating in an emotionally detached way on things like infrastructure. You can see the ethnic/religious loyalty play out when the rubber hits the road. My parents have been in the country for 35 years and probably won’t vote for Harris because of what’s happening in the Middle East. They are not people who care about human rights. They think the Rohingya are probably illegal Bangladeshi immigrants to Myanmar. They’re not Arab and haven’t stepped foot in a mosque in 35 years. But ethnic and religious collectivism runs deep in a way individualistic westerners cannot hope to understand.

saagarjha 2y ago
You know, there are women who strongly believe that they should not be enfranchised. Well, not just themselves, but that all women are incapable of making sound voting decisions. After all, women are not quite smart enough to understand the nuances of politics, and god forbid we make important decisions about war or healthcare that way. Moral panics about suffrage are nothing new. Notably, opposition often comes from the very group that is disenfranchised: humans are nothing if not aligned, and there's always someone who is going to hold an unusual, self-effacing position. I will give you credit for at least being consistent in your position when applying it to yourself, but that doesn't give it any more weight than the idea that women should not be allowed to vote. Or the newly liberated African-American men before them, or Native Americans who got their rights after. It's historically been a losing argument and it seems awfully unlikely that the current situation is any different. Also, while we're splitting hairs: I would consider many individualist westerners to not care about human rights. Actually I think a lot of the time most Americans are not voting for their rights, usually because they are mostly static until significant change happens to make them care (say, the civil rights movement, or the fall of Roe v. Wade). And I think some of them are actually actively against the cause of human rights, seeking to deprive and limit the extent to which they apply. I know people who won't vote for Harris because of what's happening in the Middle East. Some of them want more bombs going there and some want fewer! I think it is actually quite rude to assume that your cultural divisions are somehow special and unheard of amid the existing voting population, or that they are enough to destabilize the country. That does not seem to be supported by history.