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> One useful trick for judging different kinds of work is to look at who your colleagues will be. You'll become like whoever you work with. Do you want to becom

> One useful trick for judging different kinds of work is to look at who your colleagues will be. You'll become like whoever you work with. Do you want to become like these people? Reminded me of this gem: https://moxie.org/2013/01/07/career-advice.html https://moxie.org/2013/01/07/career-advice.html

hypertexthero 2y ago
And this interview at Slashdot: > Please, don’t spend your late teens or early twenties in front of your computer at a startup. If you’re a young person, I think the very best thing you could do is get together with a group of friends and commit to a one year experiment in which the substantial part of your life will be focused on discovery and not be dedicated to wage work – however that looks for you. Get an instrument, learn three chords, and go on tour; find a derelict boat and cross an ocean; hitchhike to Alaska; build a fleet of dirigibles; construct a UAV that will engage with the emerging local police UAVs; whatever – but make it count. — Moxie Marlinspike https://interviews.slashdot.org/story/11/12/19/179256/moxie-marlinspike-answers-your-questions https://interviews.slashdot.org/story/11/12/19/179256/moxie-...
- _dark_matter_ 2y ago
  We don't deserve Moxie. What an inspiration
- Alacart 2y ago
  While I agree that would be great for many people, how are 99% of young people supposed to survive during this time? How do they pay their rent, buy groceries, and pay for these explorations without wage work?
  - hypertexthero 2y ago
    They can’t. Need to have the day job and try to do something in the night, or vice versa. We need a basic income. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=basic+income https://hn.algolia.com/?q=basic+income
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    Be born to rich parents, win the lottery, dumpster dive, live on the boat/aircraft?
  - Mistletoe 2y ago
    A friend of mine from New Mexico calls them Trustafarians, where they exist in droves.
    - lispisok 2y ago
      Lemme guess, Taos or Santa Fe?
  - grecy 2y ago
    Hitchhiking to Alaska is very cheap. In fact driving a 4x4 from Alaska to Argentina only cost me the same as it did to live in a city and go to work everyday ~$1200 per month for everything
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  Aw fuck. well at least I made a bunch of money I guess
- tightbookkeeper 2y ago
  The time for discovery is childhood. As the trend is to extend adolescence more and more, maybe we need to cut back on regimented schooling during that time.
inputorigin 2y ago
This is gold: it resonates a lot with my own experience and of those around me. Thanks for sharing. Looks like it was published right when I graduated, sad I missed it. Though I did end up doing some of the things on his list, and they were by far some of the most meaningful periods of my life. If you have anything else like this article, please do share
titanomachy 2y ago
This made me feel some despair. The young people in my field are similar to me, and have interests and passions outside of work, but the older folks seem to have little in their lives which is enviable to me. Many of them are out of shape and hunched over from decades in front of their screens. They don't have strong interests in anything, and they seem to spend a lot of their time and energy thinking about their money: how to spend it, how to grow it, how to save it. They have families, but seem to view them as an obligation and a burden which they'd rather avoid. I do know older people who retired from tech relatively early and live adventurous and inspiring lives. Maybe the key is just to get out before the career saps your vitality too much.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Not having kids makes early retirement and an adventurous life much more practical. With enough money I suppose you could try both at the same time?
  - titanomachy 2y ago
    Try both what, kids and early retirement? I think it could be done, especially if you're willing to relocate somewhere with reasonably low cost of living. More realistically, I think I'll try to scale back work significantly if/when I have kids rather than fully retiring. Maybe part-time consulting.
  - geomark 2y ago
    Have kids later. After early retirement if you can.
    - paulryanrogers 2y ago
      I don't recommend having kids in ones mid 30s or later. It's been quite difficult for us. YMMV.
    - pchristensen 2y ago
      There are definite, unambiguous downsides to having kids when you're older.
Mistletoe 2y ago
That is a world class article, thanks for sharing it. Saving to share with anyone in the future that needs advice. >They are the future you. Do not think that you will be substantially different. Look carefully at how they spend their time at work and outside of work, because this is also almost certainly how your life will look. It sounds obvious, but it’s amazing how often young people imagine a different projection for themselves.
NathanaelRea 2y ago
Hasn't the SPE been criticized as unscientific and basically fraudulent? Makes it hard to read this article if that's the main literature it cites to draw conclusions from.

hypertexthero 2y ago

And this interview at Slashdot: > Please, don’t spend your late teens or early twenties in front of your computer at a startup. If you’re a young person, I think the very best thing you could do is get together with a group of friends and commit to a one year experiment in which the substantial part of your life will be focused on discovery and not be dedicated to wage work – however that looks for you. Get an instrument, learn three chords, and go on tour; find a derelict boat and cross an ocean; hitchhike to Alaska; build a fleet of dirigibles; construct a UAV that will engage with the emerging local police UAVs; whatever – but make it count. — Moxie Marlinspike https://interviews.slashdot.org/story/11/12/19/179256/moxie-marlinspike-answers-your-questions https://interviews.slashdot.org/story/11/12/19/179256/moxie-...

_dark_matter_ 2y ago
We don't deserve Moxie. What an inspiration
Alacart 2y ago
While I agree that would be great for many people, how are 99% of young people supposed to survive during this time? How do they pay their rent, buy groceries, and pay for these explorations without wage work?
- hypertexthero 2y ago
  They can’t. Need to have the day job and try to do something in the night, or vice versa. We need a basic income. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=basic+income https://hn.algolia.com/?q=basic+income
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Be born to rich parents, win the lottery, dumpster dive, live on the boat/aircraft?
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  A friend of mine from New Mexico calls them Trustafarians, where they exist in droves.
  - lispisok 2y ago
    Lemme guess, Taos or Santa Fe?
- grecy 2y ago
  Hitchhiking to Alaska is very cheap. In fact driving a 4x4 from Alaska to Argentina only cost me the same as it did to live in a city and go to work everyday ~$1200 per month for everything
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
Aw fuck. well at least I made a bunch of money I guess
tightbookkeeper 2y ago
The time for discovery is childhood. As the trend is to extend adolescence more and more, maybe we need to cut back on regimented schooling during that time.

inputorigin 2y ago

This is gold: it resonates a lot with my own experience and of those around me. Thanks for sharing. Looks like it was published right when I graduated, sad I missed it. Though I did end up doing some of the things on his list, and they were by far some of the most meaningful periods of my life. If you have anything else like this article, please do share

titanomachy 2y ago

This made me feel some despair. The young people in my field are similar to me, and have interests and passions outside of work, but the older folks seem to have little in their lives which is enviable to me. Many of them are out of shape and hunched over from decades in front of their screens. They don't have strong interests in anything, and they seem to spend a lot of their time and energy thinking about their money: how to spend it, how to grow it, how to save it. They have families, but seem to view them as an obligation and a burden which they'd rather avoid. I do know older people who retired from tech relatively early and live adventurous and inspiring lives. Maybe the key is just to get out before the career saps your vitality too much.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Not having kids makes early retirement and an adventurous life much more practical. With enough money I suppose you could try both at the same time?
- titanomachy 2y ago
  Try both what, kids and early retirement? I think it could be done, especially if you're willing to relocate somewhere with reasonably low cost of living. More realistically, I think I'll try to scale back work significantly if/when I have kids rather than fully retiring. Maybe part-time consulting.
- geomark 2y ago
  Have kids later. After early retirement if you can.
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    I don't recommend having kids in ones mid 30s or later. It's been quite difficult for us. YMMV.
  - pchristensen 2y ago
    There are definite, unambiguous downsides to having kids when you're older.

Mistletoe 2y ago

That is a world class article, thanks for sharing it. Saving to share with anyone in the future that needs advice. >They are the future you. Do not think that you will be substantially different. Look carefully at how they spend their time at work and outside of work, because this is also almost certainly how your life will look. It sounds obvious, but it’s amazing how often young people imagine a different projection for themselves.

NathanaelRea 2y ago

Hasn't the SPE been criticized as unscientific and basically fraudulent? Makes it hard to read this article if that's the main literature it cites to draw conclusions from.