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The movement is still coalescing but I noticed this too in my church--people were leaving churches that were more strict about lockdowns towards churches that w

The movement is still coalescing but I noticed this too in my church--people were leaving churches that were more strict about lockdowns towards churches that were more right wing. A steady trickle of people leaving and people arriving.

CydeWeys 2y ago
Same with people fleeing from school systems that were still locked down to ones that had since reopened. I don't think this is about wokeness per se though, just people literally leaving institutions that are closed in favor of ones that are open. Like switching up your regular bar if it stops being open on one of the main nights you used to go there.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  But suppose that your regular bar served absinthe, and offered 12-hour/day child care?! I'm coming around to the thesis that compulsory education is fundamentally systematic child-care to enable parents to participate in post-industrial employment and labor without needing to be around too much, attempting to raise their bothersome kids at home. We had "latchkey kids" in the 1980s or so, and nowadays we've got parents ignoring their children at home while working from the kitchen table, or in the den. With the rise of feminism, "equal pay for equal work", and girlbosses, there's basically nobody left who knows how to raise children, or wants to do it for free (not merely free, but the opportunity cost of skilled employment), so it makes sense for the State to expand public education as much as humanly possible so that children are mostly out-of-the-way and never home, except to sleep.
  - CydeWeys 2y ago
    Parents are spending like 2X of their time on their children now than they did decades ago, so your overall thesis is exactly backwards. Parenting is perceived as a much more intensive activity now, which is so many people are having fewer (or no) kids. The reason seems to be safety culture: Despite society actually being much safer than it was back then, parents don't perceive this to be true, thus children aren't allowed out to play on their own like they used to be. It used to be common that children would be out all day every day planning amongst their own, and only came back for dinner and then bedtime curfew. And that included getting themselves to and from school when school was in session.
standardUser 2y ago
The bigger trend is of course people leaving churches, period. The practice of religion in the US has taken a deep dive over the last 10 years, putting it on track to match the long-standing disposition of Western Europe.
- kylecazar 2y ago
  I know this to be true in the macro ... Strangely, I've noticed in my own life a small trend of the most unlikely of people giving religion a try. They talk about it almost as if it's a new "cool" thing. This is in New York City of all places.
  - mlyle 2y ago
    Both happen; people abandon churches in droves in their late teens/early 20's, and then there's a constant stream of older converts / people trying it on. The former far outnumber the latter. But the latter might outnumber people leaving religion later in life.
  - standardUser 2y ago
    There are plenty of smaller trends, sure. But the larger trend is absolutely overwhelming and, if anything, accelerating: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/how-u-s-religious-composition-has-changed-in-recent-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/how-u-s-reli...
einpoklum 2y ago
"Chruch of less-than-7th-day adventists if you wear your mask"?
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
Eh, I have to agree with fellow commenters the decline isn't just a lockdown thing. I think it's more about refusing to meet the moment and keeping 50+ year old culture wars the rest of society has moved on from alive. Churches seem very uninterested in solutions for society becoming more lonely, anything to help single mothers, speaking out against vanity/gluttony/greed, etc. Maybe uniformly shifting gears away from the very very very tired weekly tirades about things related to sexuality would be a healthy first step. Find more to stand for than against, right?
- vuln 2y ago
  When was the last time you attended church and what was the denomination? You’re providing anecdotal evidence, right?
  - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
    2 weeks ago. I was raised in church and attended Christian university. Work in more liberal space. I can see perspectives from outside and in.

CydeWeys 2y ago

Same with people fleeing from school systems that were still locked down to ones that had since reopened. I don't think this is about wokeness per se though, just people literally leaving institutions that are closed in favor of ones that are open. Like switching up your regular bar if it stops being open on one of the main nights you used to go there.

AStonesThrow 2y ago
But suppose that your regular bar served absinthe, and offered 12-hour/day child care?! I'm coming around to the thesis that compulsory education is fundamentally systematic child-care to enable parents to participate in post-industrial employment and labor without needing to be around too much, attempting to raise their bothersome kids at home. We had "latchkey kids" in the 1980s or so, and nowadays we've got parents ignoring their children at home while working from the kitchen table, or in the den. With the rise of feminism, "equal pay for equal work", and girlbosses, there's basically nobody left who knows how to raise children, or wants to do it for free (not merely free, but the opportunity cost of skilled employment), so it makes sense for the State to expand public education as much as humanly possible so that children are mostly out-of-the-way and never home, except to sleep.
- CydeWeys 2y ago
  Parents are spending like 2X of their time on their children now than they did decades ago, so your overall thesis is exactly backwards. Parenting is perceived as a much more intensive activity now, which is so many people are having fewer (or no) kids. The reason seems to be safety culture: Despite society actually being much safer than it was back then, parents don't perceive this to be true, thus children aren't allowed out to play on their own like they used to be. It used to be common that children would be out all day every day planning amongst their own, and only came back for dinner and then bedtime curfew. And that included getting themselves to and from school when school was in session.

standardUser 2y ago

The bigger trend is of course people leaving churches, period. The practice of religion in the US has taken a deep dive over the last 10 years, putting it on track to match the long-standing disposition of Western Europe.

kylecazar 2y ago
I know this to be true in the macro ... Strangely, I've noticed in my own life a small trend of the most unlikely of people giving religion a try. They talk about it almost as if it's a new "cool" thing. This is in New York City of all places.
- mlyle 2y ago
  Both happen; people abandon churches in droves in their late teens/early 20's, and then there's a constant stream of older converts / people trying it on. The former far outnumber the latter. But the latter might outnumber people leaving religion later in life.
- standardUser 2y ago
  There are plenty of smaller trends, sure. But the larger trend is absolutely overwhelming and, if anything, accelerating: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/how-u-s-religious-composition-has-changed-in-recent-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/how-u-s-reli...

einpoklum 2y ago

"Chruch of less-than-7th-day adventists if you wear your mask"?

kylehotchkiss 2y ago

Eh, I have to agree with fellow commenters the decline isn't just a lockdown thing. I think it's more about refusing to meet the moment and keeping 50+ year old culture wars the rest of society has moved on from alive. Churches seem very uninterested in solutions for society becoming more lonely, anything to help single mothers, speaking out against vanity/gluttony/greed, etc. Maybe uniformly shifting gears away from the very very very tired weekly tirades about things related to sexuality would be a healthy first step. Find more to stand for than against, right?

vuln 2y ago
When was the last time you attended church and what was the denomination? You’re providing anecdotal evidence, right?
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  2 weeks ago. I was raised in church and attended Christian university. Work in more liberal space. I can see perspectives from outside and in.