6 ms·

Return to Work and Dying on the Job

69 points by mpweiher 2y ago

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
I'm kinda sidestepping the actual topic here, admittedly, but: > It's not like Wells Fargo treats its workers badly but does well by everyone else. Remember, those fake accounts existed as part of a fraud on the company's investors. The company went on to steal $76m from its customers on currency conversions. They also foreclosed on customers who were up to date on their mortgages, seizing and selling off all their possessions. They argued that when bosses pressured tellers into forging customers on fraudulent account-opening paperwork, that those customers had lost their right to sue, since the fraudulent paperwork had a binding arbitration clause. When they finally agreed to pay restitution to their victims, they made the payments opt-in, ensuring that most of the millions of people they stole from would never get their money back. .... They stole millions with fraudulent "home warranties." They stole millions from small businesses with fake credit-card fees. They defrauded 800,000 customers through an insurance scam, and stole 25,000 customers' cars with illegal repos. They led the pre-2008 pack on mis-selling deceptive mortgages that blew up and triggered the foreclosure epidemic. They loaned vast sums to Trump, who slashed their taxes, and then they fired 26.000 workers and did a $40.6B stock buyback. They stole 525 homes from mortgage borrowers and blamed it on a "computer glitch": In any kind of remotely just and sensible society, this corporation would be shut the fuck down by authorities, have it's assets liquidated, it's leadership imprisoned, and the trademark barred from use for 50 years. The sheer volume of horseshit a company of sufficient size can get away with here bends the mind.
- hiatus 2y ago
  > In any kind of remotely just and sensible society, this corporation would be shut the fuck down by authorities, have it's assets liquidated, it's leadership imprisoned, and the trademark barred from use for 50 years. The sheer volume of horseshit a company of sufficient size can get away with here bends the mind. Which society would act differently?
  - alemanek 2y ago
    China: https://www.barrons.com/news/china-sentences-former-asset-manager-to-death-for-extremely-large-bribes-5c92fca8 https://www.barrons.com/news/china-sentences-former-asset-ma... Vietnam: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68778636 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68778636 Now both of those countries have their own issues but they know how to deal with corrupt bankers
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      It’s hard to know what is really true in those situations. Are those bankers actually corrupt? Or were they victims of political targeting? Or was their corruption authorized by a higher power until they were ready to be disposed of? I personally think rule of law is much greater in the US and most of Europe.
      - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
        He said, somehow forgetting that the reason we're even discussing this is the heinous and well documented corruption of a US-based bank.
        jncfhnb 2y ago
        Not really. If a banker in China is taken down for political reasons, it’s not evidence that China is more adept at upholding banking corruption laws than the US.
        alemanek 2y ago
        They could just as easily have trumped up treason charges. Whether the charges are valid or not is irrelevant. Both of these countries are clearly sending a message. Get too greedy, corrupt, ..etc and we will kill you. Whereas in the US there are 0 real consequences. It is the message that is important here. The US needs to start putting executives involved in these crimes in federal prison with very long sentences. Fining them doesn’t work they need to lose their freedom.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > In any kind of remotely just and sensible society, this corporation would be shut the fuck down by authorities, have it's assets liquidated, it's leadership imprisoned, and the trademark barred from use for 50 years. But you are living in a democracy (what am i saying, the best democracy, the land of the free, the american dream). Why not let democratic institutions do their job ? /s
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
elphinstone 2y ago
Wells Fargo needs to update its brand from the guarded stagecoaches of the Old West to the masked outlaws who robbed those stagecoaches. This is the same company involved in the subprime mortgage bailout fiasco as well as cartel money laundering scandals.
otteromkram 2y ago
> ...and there's no arguing with the idea that spending some time in person with people can help improve working relationships (I attended a week-long, all-hands, staff retreat for EFF earlier this month and it was fantastic, primarily due to its in-person nature). I would like to argue this.
- superb_dev 2y ago
  Okay, go ahead
  - weard_beard 2y ago
    I'm fat and short and awkward. On camera I come across, with my library in the background, as well educated, seasoned, sometimes even wise. In person I come across as fat and short and awkward. Since I have worked remotely full time (about 4 years) I have gotten more raises, bonuses, and more advanced title bumps than I had accumulated previously in a 20 year career. There's less office politics when there's no office. There's less discrimination when we have greater control over our appearance online. For some of us we are finally flourishing WITHOUT the personal connection that has traditionally helped others thrive.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
fancyfredbot 2y ago
With a probability of 100% a number of people who returned to office work after working from home during COVID were going to die at work shortly afterwards. This is pretty much inevitable because tens of millions of people are involved and people die sometimes. What's shocking is the fact it was several days before anyone discovered Denise Prudhomme had died. However if we consider that this was over a weekend in August when offices are quiet with many people are on holiday, and that she was in an area reserved for people working from home at other times, and that people disproportionately work from home on Friday/Monday, it's clear this won't have been the only office room which was empty over that period of time. I think it's tragic what happened here and I'm definitely not an apologist for enforced face time in the office, or for banks, banking, or Wells Fargo, which all have real issues. What I'm trying to say is that a sad event which actually says relatively little about whether returning to office is a good idea. To see this consider that if all employees were asked to be in the office full-time it's much more likely someone would have been in the room to help Denise, or at least notice her death. If she'd been at home then presumably nobody would have noticed (as nobody at home seems to have altered the police or her employer for several days either)

69 points by mpweiher 2y ago

I'm kinda sidestepping the actual topic here, admittedly, but: > It's not like Wells Fargo treats its workers badly but does well by everyone else. Remember, those fake accounts existed as part of a fraud on the company's investors. The company went on to steal $76m from its customers on currency conversions. They also foreclosed on customers who were up to date on their mortgages, seizing and selling off all their possessions. They argued that when bosses pressured tellers into forging customers on fraudulent account-opening paperwork, that those customers had lost their right to sue, since the fraudulent paperwork had a binding arbitration clause. When they finally agreed to pay restitution to their victims, they made the payments opt-in, ensuring that most of the millions of people they stole from would never get their money back. .... They stole millions with fraudulent "home warranties." They stole millions from small businesses with fake credit-card fees. They defrauded 800,000 customers through an insurance scam, and stole 25,000 customers' cars with illegal repos. They led the pre-2008 pack on mis-selling deceptive mortgages that blew up and triggered the foreclosure epidemic. They loaned vast sums to Trump, who slashed their taxes, and then they fired 26.000 workers and did a $40.6B stock buyback. They stole 525 homes from mortgage borrowers and blamed it on a "computer glitch": In any kind of remotely just and sensible society, this corporation would be shut the fuck down by authorities, have it's assets liquidated, it's leadership imprisoned, and the trademark barred from use for 50 years. The sheer volume of horseshit a company of sufficient size can get away with here bends the mind.

hiatus 2y ago
> In any kind of remotely just and sensible society, this corporation would be shut the fuck down by authorities, have it's assets liquidated, it's leadership imprisoned, and the trademark barred from use for 50 years. The sheer volume of horseshit a company of sufficient size can get away with here bends the mind. Which society would act differently?
- alemanek 2y ago
  China: https://www.barrons.com/news/china-sentences-former-asset-manager-to-death-for-extremely-large-bribes-5c92fca8 https://www.barrons.com/news/china-sentences-former-asset-ma... Vietnam: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68778636 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68778636 Now both of those countries have their own issues but they know how to deal with corrupt bankers
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    It’s hard to know what is really true in those situations. Are those bankers actually corrupt? Or were they victims of political targeting? Or was their corruption authorized by a higher power until they were ready to be disposed of? I personally think rule of law is much greater in the US and most of Europe.
    - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
      He said, somehow forgetting that the reason we're even discussing this is the heinous and well documented corruption of a US-based bank.
      - jncfhnb 2y ago
        Not really. If a banker in China is taken down for political reasons, it’s not evidence that China is more adept at upholding banking corruption laws than the US.
        alemanek 2y ago
        They could just as easily have trumped up treason charges. Whether the charges are valid or not is irrelevant. Both of these countries are clearly sending a message. Get too greedy, corrupt, ..etc and we will kill you. Whereas in the US there are 0 real consequences. It is the message that is important here. The US needs to start putting executives involved in these crimes in federal prison with very long sentences. Fining them doesn’t work they need to lose their freedom.
hulitu 2y ago
> In any kind of remotely just and sensible society, this corporation would be shut the fuck down by authorities, have it's assets liquidated, it's leadership imprisoned, and the trademark barred from use for 50 years. But you are living in a democracy (what am i saying, the best democracy, the land of the free, the american dream). Why not let democratic institutions do their job ? /s

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

elphinstone 2y ago

Wells Fargo needs to update its brand from the guarded stagecoaches of the Old West to the masked outlaws who robbed those stagecoaches. This is the same company involved in the subprime mortgage bailout fiasco as well as cartel money laundering scandals.

otteromkram 2y ago

> ...and there's no arguing with the idea that spending some time in person with people can help improve working relationships (I attended a week-long, all-hands, staff retreat for EFF earlier this month and it was fantastic, primarily due to its in-person nature). I would like to argue this.

superb_dev 2y ago
Okay, go ahead
- weard_beard 2y ago
  I'm fat and short and awkward. On camera I come across, with my library in the background, as well educated, seasoned, sometimes even wise. In person I come across as fat and short and awkward. Since I have worked remotely full time (about 4 years) I have gotten more raises, bonuses, and more advanced title bumps than I had accumulated previously in a 20 year career. There's less office politics when there's no office. There's less discrimination when we have greater control over our appearance online. For some of us we are finally flourishing WITHOUT the personal connection that has traditionally helped others thrive.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

fancyfredbot 2y ago

With a probability of 100% a number of people who returned to office work after working from home during COVID were going to die at work shortly afterwards. This is pretty much inevitable because tens of millions of people are involved and people die sometimes. What's shocking is the fact it was several days before anyone discovered Denise Prudhomme had died. However if we consider that this was over a weekend in August when offices are quiet with many people are on holiday, and that she was in an area reserved for people working from home at other times, and that people disproportionately work from home on Friday/Monday, it's clear this won't have been the only office room which was empty over that period of time. I think it's tragic what happened here and I'm definitely not an apologist for enforced face time in the office, or for banks, banking, or Wells Fargo, which all have real issues. What I'm trying to say is that a sad event which actually says relatively little about whether returning to office is a good idea. To see this consider that if all employees were asked to be in the office full-time it's much more likely someone would have been in the room to help Denise, or at least notice her death. If she'd been at home then presumably nobody would have noticed (as nobody at home seems to have altered the police or her employer for several days either)