3 ms·

The FDA is under regulatory capture by the pharmaceutical industry, and their approval or lack thereof is one of the most unreliable measures of the safety and

The FDA is under regulatory capture by the pharmaceutical industry, and their approval or lack thereof is one of the most unreliable measures of the safety and efficacy of psychiatric drugs in particular. Schizophrenia diagnoses are almost entirely subjective in nature (there's no reliable biochemical or biomolecular or biophysical test for the presence or absence of the condition) - really the whole field of psychiatric care for mental health issues is about as useful as tuberculosis experts were in the 1850s, before Koch's demonstration of the infectious microbial nature of the disease.

olliej 2y ago
No it’s under pressure from people who go to the press saying “the FDA won’t let me use this drug to help me/my family” who ignore “because there’s no evidence it works” as the reason. The pharmaceutical just has to tell those people that it does work in their particular case and just ignore the studies that say it doesn’t, and the media and politicians uncritically report that as “the FDA is mean, let pharmaceutical companies sell new and expensive snake oil and re-victimise these people”, then in a few years later the same reporters and politicians berate the “ineffectual” FDA for allowing snake oil.
- dmix 2y ago
  Regulatory capture doesn’t mean the entire of idea of FDA as a safety mechanism is bad… nor does a legitimate reason for their existence mean that capture doesn’t exist It is good to hold federal agencies with large power to a very high standard. But that’s often not the case as any critiques get dismissed with the “well they have good intentions and can you imagine if they didn’t exist?” hand wave tactic.
77pt77 2y ago
> Game changer in treatment of disease we can't even define Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, now does it?
fnordpiglet 2y ago
I’m sort of surprised to see someone claiming schizophrenia is subjective. Schizophrenia has extraordinarily pronounced symptoms. It’s like claiming lupus doesn’t exist because there’s no single reliable diagnostic test for it. Schizophrenia has very specific and easily observed symptoms and is specifically affected by medications such as Zyprexa that doesn’t cause similar changes in behavior for people without schizophrenia or psychosis. However that and related medications have horrible side effects leading most patients to avoid taking it. For people who are or have family members ravaged by schizophrenia this is some of the best news you can imagine - a medication with similar beneficial effects on their loved ones but without turning them into zombies. It feels callous to an extraordinary degree to deny the existence of schizophrenia and to not recognize the benefit to a minimal side effect mediation that can give the schizophrenics life back.
- niemal_dev 2y ago
  This is actually a ridiculous answer. So you claim if you get get cold turkey'ed on Zyprexa you won't hallucinate or have mania? You claim, there are people out there, who take a dopamine antagonist without getting diabetes, organ issues, loss of self (fundamentally this is what these drugs do, deprive of brain function) and ultimately sudden death?
  - fnordpiglet 2y ago
    I made no statements remotely like this.
    - niemal_dev 2y ago
      > Schizophrenia has very specific and easily observed symptoms and is specifically affected by medications such as Zyprexa that doesn’t cause similar changes in behavior for people without schizophrenia or psychosis. By the nature of these drugs, each and every symptom of what you pronounce Schizophrenia would be your daily life once on the poisonous neuro-toxic agents.
      - 2y ago
mikhmha 2y ago
I see this take on the internet a lot usually combined with some statement of how Schizophrenics are secret geniuses and were the prophets of olden times. It just doesn't square off with my own observations of schizophrenics in real life. How is the condition subjective when you see the same types of symptoms across people? I've seen it with men and women afflicted by the condition - always the persecutory delusions, belief that they are some king or prophet/chosen one, disorganized thinking, and word salads. Why is it always the same symptoms? You're telling me that's not rooted in any common condition?
- niemal_dev 2y ago
  > always the persecutory delusions, belief that they are some king or prophet/chosen one, disorganized thinking, and word salads. Why is it always the same symptoms? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect Your argument is as good as calling Martha Mitchell crazy and dismissing entirely possible organized exploitation on a premise of made-up symptoms that are composed of zero scientific evidence.
amanaplanacanal 2y ago
Pain is entirely self reported by the patient. There is no objective measure of it. Painkillers must also then be a scam, by your logic.

olliej 2y ago

No it’s under pressure from people who go to the press saying “the FDA won’t let me use this drug to help me/my family” who ignore “because there’s no evidence it works” as the reason. The pharmaceutical just has to tell those people that it does work in their particular case and just ignore the studies that say it doesn’t, and the media and politicians uncritically report that as “the FDA is mean, let pharmaceutical companies sell new and expensive snake oil and re-victimise these people”, then in a few years later the same reporters and politicians berate the “ineffectual” FDA for allowing snake oil.

dmix 2y ago
Regulatory capture doesn’t mean the entire of idea of FDA as a safety mechanism is bad… nor does a legitimate reason for their existence mean that capture doesn’t exist It is good to hold federal agencies with large power to a very high standard. But that’s often not the case as any critiques get dismissed with the “well they have good intentions and can you imagine if they didn’t exist?” hand wave tactic.

77pt77 2y ago

> Game changer in treatment of disease we can't even define Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, now does it?

fnordpiglet 2y ago

I’m sort of surprised to see someone claiming schizophrenia is subjective. Schizophrenia has extraordinarily pronounced symptoms. It’s like claiming lupus doesn’t exist because there’s no single reliable diagnostic test for it. Schizophrenia has very specific and easily observed symptoms and is specifically affected by medications such as Zyprexa that doesn’t cause similar changes in behavior for people without schizophrenia or psychosis. However that and related medications have horrible side effects leading most patients to avoid taking it. For people who are or have family members ravaged by schizophrenia this is some of the best news you can imagine - a medication with similar beneficial effects on their loved ones but without turning them into zombies. It feels callous to an extraordinary degree to deny the existence of schizophrenia and to not recognize the benefit to a minimal side effect mediation that can give the schizophrenics life back.

niemal_dev 2y ago
This is actually a ridiculous answer. So you claim if you get get cold turkey'ed on Zyprexa you won't hallucinate or have mania? You claim, there are people out there, who take a dopamine antagonist without getting diabetes, organ issues, loss of self (fundamentally this is what these drugs do, deprive of brain function) and ultimately sudden death?
- fnordpiglet 2y ago
  I made no statements remotely like this.
  - niemal_dev 2y ago
    > Schizophrenia has very specific and easily observed symptoms and is specifically affected by medications such as Zyprexa that doesn’t cause similar changes in behavior for people without schizophrenia or psychosis. By the nature of these drugs, each and every symptom of what you pronounce Schizophrenia would be your daily life once on the poisonous neuro-toxic agents.
    - 2y ago

mikhmha 2y ago

I see this take on the internet a lot usually combined with some statement of how Schizophrenics are secret geniuses and were the prophets of olden times. It just doesn't square off with my own observations of schizophrenics in real life. How is the condition subjective when you see the same types of symptoms across people? I've seen it with men and women afflicted by the condition - always the persecutory delusions, belief that they are some king or prophet/chosen one, disorganized thinking, and word salads. Why is it always the same symptoms? You're telling me that's not rooted in any common condition?

niemal_dev 2y ago
> always the persecutory delusions, belief that they are some king or prophet/chosen one, disorganized thinking, and word salads. Why is it always the same symptoms? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell_effect Your argument is as good as calling Martha Mitchell crazy and dismissing entirely possible organized exploitation on a premise of made-up symptoms that are composed of zero scientific evidence.

amanaplanacanal 2y ago

Pain is entirely self reported by the patient. There is no objective measure of it. Painkillers must also then be a scam, by your logic.