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Mixed feelings on this. I've taken Extension courses from UCSC and from Stanford, and was never under any illusion that the teachers were affiliated with the sc

Mixed feelings on this. I've taken Extension courses from UCSC and from Stanford, and was never under any illusion that the teachers were affiliated with the schools (although one was). For all of them, they tell you in the course description who the teacher is. There's always a course evaluation at the end. If Caltech isn't monitoring the content of their courses and the student evals, then they're being negligent, for sure. But I don't see this as a systemic problem, other than maybe lack of disclosure.

Cheer2171 2y ago
> I've taken Extension courses from UCSC and from Stanford, and was never under any illusion that the teachers were affiliated with the schools What does this mean? Someone from those schools hired a teacher to teach a class sold under their schools brand. That's an affiliation. If the teacher dropped out and you didn't get a refund, you would sue those schools. What this seems like are schools outsourcing their hiring to private companies. It's a problem precisely because the random teachers get affiliated with the school.
- AlbertCory 2y ago
  > That's an affiliation. Wrong. The teachers aren't professors of any type, or student assistants, or even employees. Their classes don't give credit towards a degree. They're contractors. > It's a problem precisely because the random teachers get affiliated with the school. Wrong again. I haven't taught a class at UC Berkeley Extension, but if I had, I would not be entitled to say I was "affiliated with Berkeley."
  - goldfishgold 2y ago
    Classic game that universities love to play where they hire someone but that person isn’t “really” part of the university. Happens with extension but happens in degree granting programs too with adjuncts.
  - Cheer2171 2y ago
    > Wrong. The teachers aren't professors of any type, or student assistants, or even employees. Their classes don't give credit towards a degree. They're contractors. From Miriam Webster: affiliated, adjective, af· fil· i· at· ed ə-ˈfi-lē-ˌā-təd: closely associated with another typically in a dependent or subordinate position What you are saying is like saying "I've taken car rides from Uber and from Lyft, and was never under any illusion that the drivers were affiliated with the companies" If your organization sells services that are fulfilled by contractors who are vetted by your organization and branded with your organization's logos, then those contractors are affiliates of your organization.
    - AlbertCory 2y ago
      It's nice you can use a dictionary. In the real world of universities, though, there's a clear distinction between professors, grad students, and Extension teachers. No matter what your dictionary says.
- musicale 2y ago
  Extension or no, university courses (especially undergraduate courses) are often taught by underpaid lecturers, adjuncts, and grad students, sometimes hired on a term-by-term basis. This isn't necessarily a bad thing for students. At research universities, there is little reason to expect that a tenured faculty member would actually be a better teacher than some random lecturer; faculty are incentivized for fundraising and research rather than teaching. Moreover, experienced faculty may have little recollection of what it was like to actually learn the course material before it became second nature to them. Courses typically cover the same material, and the syllabus is usually about the same, irrespective of instructor.
pclmulqdq 2y ago
As I remembered them, many of the "extension" courses at universities are taught by people with at least a minimal affiliation to the university. I took one at Harvard that was taught by a graduate student, and another that was taught by an assistant professor. I'm personally glad, as a Caltech alum, that Caltech got called out on this bullshit, because these bootcamps really are not related to the university, and just cribbed the branding.
- Cupertino95014 2y ago
  > many of the "extension" courses at universities are taught by people with at least a minimal affiliation to the university. That might be true at Harvard, but it's not at UC Santa Cruz, UC Berkeley, or Stanford. Probably others, but those are the ones I see catalogs for.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  (Also an alum) If you look on Reddit people were calling them out two years ago.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    That was also good, but the university president doesn't read or pay attention to reddit. He does read the New York Times.
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      I met him right before the pandemic and I remember he did respond to my email around the time it was kicking off so I know that he does communicate to alums but this honestly might’ve been below his radar
      - pclmulqdq 2y ago
        I was the student body president in my last year of school, so I met the current president of the university several times (he came in during my time as a student), and he and I discussed some articles from the New York Times a few times since we were both subscribers. Also, he and the rest of the administration were very sensitive to press in the traditional media outlets. Social media was mostly immaterial to them. There was a story in the LA times about Math 1a being too hard (for the audience, Math 1a is a "calculus" course that is mostly about real analysis and not that much about calculus), and that caused a big stir that I ended up getting involved with at one point, since I was part of the student government's "course concerns" group. The current NYT article has already inspired a letter from the president.

Cheer2171 2y ago

> I've taken Extension courses from UCSC and from Stanford, and was never under any illusion that the teachers were affiliated with the schools What does this mean? Someone from those schools hired a teacher to teach a class sold under their schools brand. That's an affiliation. If the teacher dropped out and you didn't get a refund, you would sue those schools. What this seems like are schools outsourcing their hiring to private companies. It's a problem precisely because the random teachers get affiliated with the school.

AlbertCory 2y ago
> That's an affiliation. Wrong. The teachers aren't professors of any type, or student assistants, or even employees. Their classes don't give credit towards a degree. They're contractors. > It's a problem precisely because the random teachers get affiliated with the school. Wrong again. I haven't taught a class at UC Berkeley Extension, but if I had, I would not be entitled to say I was "affiliated with Berkeley."
- goldfishgold 2y ago
  Classic game that universities love to play where they hire someone but that person isn’t “really” part of the university. Happens with extension but happens in degree granting programs too with adjuncts.
- Cheer2171 2y ago
  > Wrong. The teachers aren't professors of any type, or student assistants, or even employees. Their classes don't give credit towards a degree. They're contractors. From Miriam Webster: affiliated, adjective, af· fil· i· at· ed ə-ˈfi-lē-ˌā-təd: closely associated with another typically in a dependent or subordinate position What you are saying is like saying "I've taken car rides from Uber and from Lyft, and was never under any illusion that the drivers were affiliated with the companies" If your organization sells services that are fulfilled by contractors who are vetted by your organization and branded with your organization's logos, then those contractors are affiliates of your organization.
  - AlbertCory 2y ago
    It's nice you can use a dictionary. In the real world of universities, though, there's a clear distinction between professors, grad students, and Extension teachers. No matter what your dictionary says.
musicale 2y ago
Extension or no, university courses (especially undergraduate courses) are often taught by underpaid lecturers, adjuncts, and grad students, sometimes hired on a term-by-term basis. This isn't necessarily a bad thing for students. At research universities, there is little reason to expect that a tenured faculty member would actually be a better teacher than some random lecturer; faculty are incentivized for fundraising and research rather than teaching. Moreover, experienced faculty may have little recollection of what it was like to actually learn the course material before it became second nature to them. Courses typically cover the same material, and the syllabus is usually about the same, irrespective of instructor.

pclmulqdq 2y ago

As I remembered them, many of the "extension" courses at universities are taught by people with at least a minimal affiliation to the university. I took one at Harvard that was taught by a graduate student, and another that was taught by an assistant professor. I'm personally glad, as a Caltech alum, that Caltech got called out on this bullshit, because these bootcamps really are not related to the university, and just cribbed the branding.

Cupertino95014 2y ago
> many of the "extension" courses at universities are taught by people with at least a minimal affiliation to the university. That might be true at Harvard, but it's not at UC Santa Cruz, UC Berkeley, or Stanford. Probably others, but those are the ones I see catalogs for.
selimthegrim 2y ago
(Also an alum) If you look on Reddit people were calling them out two years ago.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  That was also good, but the university president doesn't read or pay attention to reddit. He does read the New York Times.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    I met him right before the pandemic and I remember he did respond to my email around the time it was kicking off so I know that he does communicate to alums but this honestly might’ve been below his radar
    - pclmulqdq 2y ago
      I was the student body president in my last year of school, so I met the current president of the university several times (he came in during my time as a student), and he and I discussed some articles from the New York Times a few times since we were both subscribers. Also, he and the rest of the administration were very sensitive to press in the traditional media outlets. Social media was mostly immaterial to them. There was a story in the LA times about Math 1a being too hard (for the audience, Math 1a is a "calculus" course that is mostly about real analysis and not that much about calculus), and that caused a big stir that I ended up getting involved with at one point, since I was part of the student government's "course concerns" group. The current NYT article has already inspired a letter from the president.