7 ms·

WakeMate Update

199 points by spydertennis 14y ago

csmeder 14y ago
Interesting Greg Nemeth is listed as on WakeMate's about page http://www.wakemate.com/about/ http://www.wakemate.com/about/ as a cofounder of the company that produces WakeMate. "Greg Nemeth is Co-Founder and President of Perfect Third, Inc. He manages WakeMate’s finances, communications, and marketing strategy. Greg studied business at Boston College until he left to pursue WakeMate full-time." According to this blog post he seems to have secretly started a competing company and used WakeMates email list? http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus Its a shame WakeMate didn't end up succeeding, it was one of my favorite YC startup ideas.
- spydertennis 14y ago
  Oops, the information on that page is outdated. Greg is a co-founder of WakeMate. Edit: as per swombat's comment below changed "was" to "is"
  - swombat 14y ago
    There's no such thing as "was a cofounder". Once you're a cofounder, you always are, even if you're kicked out of your company or leave for any reason. Steve Jobs was still cofounder of Apple when he was kicked out of it.
    - Alex3917 14y ago
      Not entirely true. There are many cases where someone joins the business but then leaves after a couple months, before any of their equity even vests.
      - staunch 14y ago
        Founding a company is an act. Those who found a company are its founders. It can't be undone.
        jaylevitt 14y ago
        No.. having founded a company is a decision made and re-made by historians. Steve Case was VP of Marketing when AOL was founded as Quantum Computer Services. As his role grew, early employees left, and time passed, he became the co-founder.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
    - rdl 14y ago
      I thought it was wakemate which "was".
    - alanh 14y ago
      What about the reverse? If one co-founder leaves, does that make you “founder” and not co-founder?
      - technotony 14y ago
        I've been wondering this as this is exactly what happened to me and I'm never sure how to introduce myself!
        eli 14y ago
        In my mind "co-founder" is a type of founder. I don't think you are doing anything wrong by calling yourself founder.
    - coda_ 14y ago
      Don't you mean: Steve Jobs IS still cofounder of Apple when he was kicked out of it. ;)
    - wglb 14y ago
      Kind of like "former alumnus?" I'm trying to figure out how one can do that transition...
      - ig1 14y ago
        You can have your degree stripped from you
        wglb 14y ago
        Oh, no question. But I wonder if that makes you a former alumnus. Being an alumnus doesn't require a degree, does it?
    - paulgb 14y ago
      If you really want to be pedantic, if he is a cofounder, he was a cofounder too. As Mitch Hedberg said, "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to too"
      - JonnieCache 14y ago
        He doesn't any more. :(
        JonnieCache 14y ago
        Hmmm. Just in case I am being misunderstood - I'm not sad because he stopped doing drugs. I'm sad because the reason he stopped doing drugs was because he died of a heroin overdose.
- jhund 14y ago
  Check out the name of Greg's new company. I'm sure it's designed to sound like the original company: * Wakemate: By Perfect Third Inc. (http://wakemate.com/about/ http://wakemate.com/about/) * MiLife+: By Three Thirds Inc. (http://www.indiegogo.com/GregNemeth http://www.indiegogo.com/GregNemeth) Somehow this all reminds me of the JooJoo tablet (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/crunchpad-tablet-joojoo/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/crunchpad-tablet-jooj...). Picking the right Co-founders is so important! I would not start a company with a person unless we have a proven track record and have built trust over several years and having worked together on a number of projects.
  - technotony 14y ago
    That is easy to say, but often you don't know exactly the right person with the right skill set at the time you need them. If you only work with people you have known for several years you are going to have a slow time growing your company.
    - jhund 14y ago
      I was referring to co-founders only in my comment about trust and track record. I agree that at some point you will have to bring people on board that you haven't known for that long, but then the risk is also a lot smaller since they won't be co-founders.
      - veemjeem 14y ago
        So you'll only bring on people with a proven track record of having multiple past exits? That severely limits your options... plus why would someone with multiple successful exits want to work with you?
        swombat 14y ago
        No, he's saying the exact opposite of that. Bringing people on board doesn't require as much pickiness as choosing cofounders.
    - 14y ago
- kurtvarner 14y ago
  He got a hold of their Twitter account too. Check the stream, as the interactions are hilarious. https://twitter.com/#!/wakemate https://twitter.com/#!/wakemate (but hurry because I'm sure the tweets will be gone soon).
dm8 14y ago
Not sure about others but for me its a dead link.
- gergles 14y ago
  For me as well - I get redirected to a domain squatting page. [ld] [~] nslookup blog.wakemate.com Non-authoritative answer: Name: blog.wakemate.com Address: 208.43.167.112
rdl 14y ago
Wow, this was classy (presumably by Greg). Best of luck with whatever you do next. Software is way easier :)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
brittohalloran 14y ago
Some people are having trouble accessing it: WakeMate Update Hello everyone. MiLife+ Many of you received an email this morning concerning a new product called MiLife+. Today is the first time I have heard of this product and I am shocked at the way it was promoted to WakeMate customers. We are not affliated with this product in any way. It was completely unauthorized and I am scrambling to get to the bottom of it. I sincerely apologize that you received those unsolicited messages. What’s Next? I poured my heart and soul into this company and though we stumbled along the way I believe that we provided something of value to our customers. However, as many of you have guessed, we have exhausted our capital and will no longer be making any more WakeMates. Currently our plan is to keep the service going while we work on open sourcing the technology. Hopefully this will ensure that you can continue to enjoy the product and its benefits even after the company no longer exists. As always if you have any concerns please email me and I will do my best to resolve them: arun[at]wakemate[dot]com. all the best, Arun Gupta co-founder of WakeMate
matmann2001 14y ago
That font kinda hurts my eyes.
natrius 14y ago
Regardless of the drama, I can't imagine buying anything from someone involved with WakeMate after the horrible experience the first time around. $50 spent, and it never succeeded in tracking a night of my sleep. There are other products out there these days that actually work.
- nathos 14y ago
  As another person who spent money on WakeMate but never got it work properly, I couldn't agree more. WakeMate was fraught with delays and the product they actually shipped looked nothing like their concept art or "prototype". Heck, they even shipped power adapters that were a fire hazard and never replaced them. Sad that this latest shadiness from a (former?) WakeMate person doesn't surprise me in the least.
  - finin 14y ago
    I never got my promised replacement power adapter either. I thought it was just me. :-(
    - spydertennis 14y ago
      I'm really sorry about that. We kept trying but never had the cash to source a replacement and get it re-certified for use with our product.
      - uptown 14y ago
        How much would it have cost to communicate that by email to customers that were waiting for a replacement?
  - ch0wn 14y ago
    The worst part, in my opinion, was the miserable communication. I had some contact with their support and they kept promising updates to their software over and over again. Of course, this never happened.
covercash 14y ago
I've had some great email exchanges with Arun and he has been nothing but helpful and honest. The fact that he is continuing to work on this product says a lot. Any team would be lucky to have a guy like him on it. I hope this mess gets straightened out.
- brittohalloran 14y ago
  seems like he's doing the right thing
- danielsiders 14y ago
  So have I, he seems like a great guy, is really concerned about the users, and is committed to taking it open source very soon. Sorry he's been dragged into this mess.
timbowen 14y ago
I used to work for WakeMate - feel free to ask me anything. This insane action from Greg doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
- swombat 14y ago
  I have three questions: 1) WTF? 2) How close is pg to this whole mess? I'm guessing this is no longer in his sphere of influence, but it would seem that given that Wakemate is a YC company he should probably clarify YC's position on this debacle. I realise this is more a question to pg than to you, but I guess you might have an opinion. 3) Do you think the problem that ultimately killed the company was a mismatch between the founders, or did that evolve as a result of the multitude of problems that the company encountered? I'm getting a hunch that all these mistakes by the company could have been the result of lacking a clear direction/leadership.
  - timbowen 14y ago
    1.) LOL I dunno! 2.) I never talked to PG, I can't speak to that. 3.) The problems were absolutely cumulative over the course of development. Neither Greg nor Arun were engineers or technical in any way and the hardware developer had a full time job that was not WakeMate. I started ~1.5 months before launch and was told the hardware was functional. I managed to get the iOS version to work most of the time but the firmware was hosed in such a way that pretty much all units would fail over the course of a few months.
    - davidroetzel 14y ago
      > the firmware was hosed in such a way that pretty much all units would fail over the course of a few months I initially had some good experiences with the android version which then got more and more unreliable until I stopped using it altogether. I was led to believe that this was due to bugs in the android app. Are you now saying that it is actually a firmware bug on the devices? And if yes, is there any hope to have this fixed once everything is open sourced?
drewcrawford 14y ago
This is as good of a place as any to ask: Greg seems to be trying to charge not only a $150 fee to access the API (see price tiers), but also an unknown % cut of all app revenue: http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus It's one thing for Apple to do this when they have a huge install base, but is this really a smart move for a product with an install base of zero? What would possibly motivate me to shell out $250+ plus my hourly rate plus a revenue cut for an unproven hardware device with a customer base that is (generously) 1500 people? Disclaimer: I've had many bad experiences with WakeMate.
- rabidonrails 14y ago
  It's interesting to see him use the YC brand to launch his new company -- are they associated? Can he just walk with the WakeMate IP? Also, why does he seem to be whispering in the video? It's freakin me out. Update: Even more interesting, it seems that Greg had been tweeting from @wakemate even after leaving...shady shady shady
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
    - technotony 14y ago
      Do you have more details on how they did this/what happened?
- vaksel 14y ago
  yeah it would make much more sense for them to just use the % cut. Get a bunch of developers tied to their platform...and get that market share
scottschulthess 14y ago
I dont see why everyone is interested in sleep aide devices. I don't really give a crap about how much I roll around in my sleep, nor some BS about circadian rythms
- drx 14y ago
  I don't see why everyone is interested in blood sugar aide devices. I don't really give a crap about how much insulin my body produces, nor some BS about insulin resistance.
  - qq66 14y ago
    The comparison is strained because blood sugar devices are specifically marketed to diabetics. I see that most sleep aid devices are marketed to the general population -- the messaging isn't "are you having trouble sleeping?" it's "Do you want to be a more effective person? Track your sleep!"
    - delackner 14y ago
      Most people in the US today have chronic sleep deprivation. Just because most people are used to not being healthy doesn't mean it is normal (over the course of human history).
      - mibbitier 14y ago
        Most people in the US today are also obese.
  - scottschulthess 14y ago
    I don't hate on people being interested in it I'm just surprised that people are:)
- rdl 14y ago
  I like my Zeo because it lets me know when I actually got to sleep, and shows that REM happens toward the end of sleep, which is why an extra hour in the morning is so seductive every morning. The "wake in between REM stages" feature is actually pretty nice.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
dmix 14y ago
I knew something was up with that email from MiLife+ this morning. They're website was an awful Godaddy generated site (http://www.milifeplus.com/ http://www.milifeplus.com/) and the video had a creepy audio narration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCZQvguYTqg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCZQvguYTqg Plus the wristband looked like a 5 minute CAD job with not effort.
- jedc 14y ago
  And the video mentioned the project was on Kickstarter when it's actually on some other random crowdfunding site.
- irons 14y ago
  Not to mention the huge-type "Click here for all the detials" typo. Painful.
forkrulassail 14y ago
I really hate the 2 WakeMates I bought. I was given support up to a point, and then nothing. First there was app problems, then I got stuck with two devices with not enough battery power to last a night. People shouldn't release weak beta products.
- jowiar 14y ago
  This is a fundamental difference between hardware and software. You can release beta SW. You can't release beta HW.
  - forkrulassail 14y ago
    Fully agreed. This product sucks. They stole $120 from me and made me a bad gift giver. I'm glad they're going under. I'm replacing my simply warn-out SleepTracker.
kevinpet 14y ago
Does anyone have a pointer to the backstory to this? The response and the discussion here don't make a lot of sense without knowing about what previously happened.
- brittohalloran 14y ago
  http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4167436 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4167436
- rabidonrails 14y ago
  Here's what I can tell you from what I've gathered. --There was WakeMate, a YC company --They were having issues (with hardware, customers...) --Greg (one of the founders) left --He started a new company that is trying to make a similar product by crowdfunding the capital needed --He emailed all of the WakeMate users --Nobody told Arun (another founder) --Arun discontinued WakeMate and apologized to the WakeMate users for the unauthorized email I think you're caught up.
mvid 14y ago
Ex wakemate engineer as well, documenting all of this: http://storify.com/mvidutis/wakemate-returns http://storify.com/mvidutis/wakemate-returns Ask me anything
- davidroetzel 14y ago
  Are you involved in the open sourcing arun hinted at? If yes, what will this include and when can we expect to see some code?
  - spydertennis 14y ago
    I don't want to give any concrete details yet (this forced a premature announcement). We are hoping to include everything one would need to replicate the product.
  - mvid 14y ago
    As far as I have heard, no.
ivankirigin 14y ago
Shutting down a company is no fun, so I wish them luck. Considering the problems with Jawbone's Up (which I also bought), I think we can all agree that making hardware is... err.. hard. There is definitely something of value here, and I hope someone gets it right.
mrbill 14y ago
My Wakemate worked great, and I even bought the bigger wristband for it, but didn't use it after I switched to a Galaxy Nexus from an iPhone 4 back in December.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
davidroetzel 14y ago
Now that it is official that WakeMate is dead, it would be great to see some kind of post mortem. People keep iterating that hardware is not as easy as software, but WakeMate actually solved some of the biggest problems, including being allowed to sell the devices in the EU (for which you need to meet some requirements many small hardware companies do not want to deal with). I would love to read about what actually went wrong. I guess there are some great lessons to be learned here.
- spydertennis 14y ago
  David, planning on writing something up soon! Hopefully other people can learn from our many trials and tribulations. Getting EU certification was actually pretty easy. I'll be sure to include information on that.
  - wickedchicken 14y ago
    Hey Arun, just wanted to say that I was a (burned) WakeMate customer but once I got a hold of you I did get a refund. Sounds like you hit some rough times, but I appreciate how far you guys actually got. Good luck on whatever comes next.
natep 14y ago
Ignoring the scandal in all of this, I don't think the product would work for me for the same reasons other sleep tracking apps didn't: added stress. While waiting for my WakeMate to arrive, I tracked nearly every moment of my sleep with the SleepBot Tracker app. Every night that I didn't get the magical target of 8 hours, I not only felt worse for lack of sleep, I felt like I had failed something. My sleep debt grew, and I spent so much time calculating the logistics of how I could get everything done and "catch up" on sleep that I think I got less sleep overall and of the same low quality (e.g. 4+12 != 8+8). Then the WakeMate arrived, and all it did was add more numbers, and a new headache to deal with in the morning. This would appear to solve that problem by making specific recommendations, but then what about when I inevitably do not fall asleep at the optimum time? I know it would be useless to stress about that kind of thing, since I know I'm currently getting very sub-optimal sleep, and any improvement would be just that, but I think I know how my mind would behave anyways. Does that make sense?
tlrobinson 14y ago
Sheesh. Leaving a company to start a direct competitor is already asking for trouble. Stealing their email list, hijacking their Twitter account, and actually admitting to using "the WakeMate sensor technology" in your new product is a great way to get to get the crap sued out of you.
- unreal37 14y ago
  Although the company (wakemate) is deadpool, and the founder says they'll just open source the technology.
millerc 14y ago
With all the hate going on about WakeMate, I have to give my 2 cents. I bought the product immediately after seeing the power adapter fiasco, and still use my WakeMate to this day. At times it does feel like you have to be an engineer to know what you're doing and keep the thing running (I can attest to timing issues leaving the bluetooth transmitter blaring full power at night and the battery dead in the morning), but as with any "bleeding edge" product you have to respect it if you want it to respect you. Seeing the company at the end of its funds even though they have an awesome product, cries of marketing mistakes. Seeing WakeMate's marketing manager take off with the mailing list, confirms to me that Greg was a poor fit, and not the best person to watch over WakeMate's interests. Arun if you're reading this, I sincerely hope you'll send an email along the lines of "the previous announcement was sent by one of our previous employees, WakeMate does not endorse that product". My mailbox still thinks WakeMate and Greg are "taking it to the next step", and seeing what I see here, it does not leave a good taste in my mouth. Best of luck to you.
- spydertennis 14y ago
  Working on it!
unreal37 14y ago
I have been following the wakemate story since the beginning. Ordered a wakemate (with the $5 deposit) from almost the beginning. Waited anxiously for months for the device. Luckily, when the time eventually came for shipping, I declined to complete the order. Great idea. Trying to solve a difficult problem and break new ground. But obviously the execution problems were evident from the first few months of missed deliverables and poor communication. Good luck to Arun and the team on the next great idea. Kinda scummy that a co-founder went and started a company in the same space, stealing the twitter and email list in the process. How is this in any way going to get consumers to trust him?
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I had some dealings with Greg and Arun early in the Wakemate lifecycle (they were looking for a programmer, I was looking for something interesting), but my schedule blew up right about that time (working at a game studio will do that to you). I always hoped they would succeed. They both seemed sharp and, more importantly, highly driven. Sad to see it deadpool. Even more sad to see shady tactics by a founder.
nothacker 14y ago
Ah- I thought this was the same Arun Gupta that does Glassfish at Oracle, but this is the YC Arun Gupta. Seems like a middle initial or nickname might help.
spydertennis 14y ago
Update: I have spoken with Greg and the indiegogo is being taken down. Sorry to everyone who got an unsolicited email or donated to the campaign.
- kloncks 14y ago
  Glad to see the situation (semi) sorted out. Tragic that all this had to happen so publicly, instead of just a conversation between the two of you. I've always been a fan of the WakeMate. Best of luck moving forward.
carbocation 14y ago
I forwarded this to can spam ( spam@uce.gov ), because I never authorized MiLifePlus to send me email.
yycom 14y ago
Is this Hacker News, or Hacker Random Communiqués? Where's the news?
- chaistudios 14y ago
  It's an interesting insight into the ups and downs of running a startup.
covercash 14y ago
Arun just sent out a final update to the WakeMate mailing list, hopefully wrapping up this fiasco: WakeMate Update Hello WakeMaters! MiLife+ Many of you received an email this morning concerning a new product called MiLife+. I want to make it clear that WakeMate is not affiliated with this product in any way. Today was the first time I have heard of this product and I am shocked at the way it was promoted to WakeMate customers. Our mailing list was used without our knowledge by a former WakeMate employee, Greg. Fortunately no other user information was compromised and I am deleting the mailing list. For those of you who have donated to the Indiegogo project I have contacted Greg and Indiegogo and it is being taken down. You will all receive your money back. What’s Next? I poured my heart and soul into this company and though we stumbled along the way I believe that we provided something of value to our customers. However, as many of you have guessed, we have exhausted our capital and will no longer be making any more WakeMates. Currently our plan is to keep the service going while we work on open sourcing the technology. Hopefully this will ensure that you can continue to enjoy the product and its benefits even after the company no longer exists. I am very sorry for the unsolicited emails. This email list will not be used again. all the best, Arun Gupta co-founder of WakeMate
jabr 14y ago
The WakeMate product itself was good and actually worked for most people (myself included). This was a legitimate goodwill measure post, so why are most/some of you taking the opportunity to bash these people?
rsaarelm 14y ago
A bit off topic given the drama going on, but I've been wanting to see stats about people who got a WakeMate and used it continuously for at least a month for a while now. Will you still have a consistently easier time waking up after your body has had several weeks to adapt to the new regimen, or will you just adapt and resume trying to oversleep past the alarm? (Also, what about the same but with a month using a Zeo instead of a WakeMate?)
airyana 14y ago
Is it possible to get a list of all the hardware / firmware issues that were collected so that those of us out here who want to refurb our sleeping WakeMates could make an event of it? Ex: I know I have trouble with mine dying before the night is over. Is it possible to get the firmware version that doesn't blast at full strength all night? I would love to get it back up and running ^.^

199 points by spydertennis 14y ago

Interesting Greg Nemeth is listed as on WakeMate's about page http://www.wakemate.com/about/ http://www.wakemate.com/about/ as a cofounder of the company that produces WakeMate. "Greg Nemeth is Co-Founder and President of Perfect Third, Inc. He manages WakeMate’s finances, communications, and marketing strategy. Greg studied business at Boston College until he left to pursue WakeMate full-time." According to this blog post he seems to have secretly started a competing company and used WakeMates email list? http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus Its a shame WakeMate didn't end up succeeding, it was one of my favorite YC startup ideas.

spydertennis 14y ago
Oops, the information on that page is outdated. Greg is a co-founder of WakeMate. Edit: as per swombat's comment below changed "was" to "is"
- swombat 14y ago
  There's no such thing as "was a cofounder". Once you're a cofounder, you always are, even if you're kicked out of your company or leave for any reason. Steve Jobs was still cofounder of Apple when he was kicked out of it.
  - Alex3917 14y ago
    Not entirely true. There are many cases where someone joins the business but then leaves after a couple months, before any of their equity even vests.
    - staunch 14y ago
      Founding a company is an act. Those who found a company are its founders. It can't be undone.
      - jaylevitt 14y ago
        No.. having founded a company is a decision made and re-made by historians. Steve Case was VP of Marketing when AOL was founded as Quantum Computer Services. As his role grew, early employees left, and time passed, he became the co-founder.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
  - rdl 14y ago
    I thought it was wakemate which "was".
  - alanh 14y ago
    What about the reverse? If one co-founder leaves, does that make you “founder” and not co-founder?
    - technotony 14y ago
      I've been wondering this as this is exactly what happened to me and I'm never sure how to introduce myself!
      - eli 14y ago
        In my mind "co-founder" is a type of founder. I don't think you are doing anything wrong by calling yourself founder.
  - coda_ 14y ago
    Don't you mean: Steve Jobs IS still cofounder of Apple when he was kicked out of it. ;)
  - wglb 14y ago
    Kind of like "former alumnus?" I'm trying to figure out how one can do that transition...
    - ig1 14y ago
      You can have your degree stripped from you
      - wglb 14y ago
        Oh, no question. But I wonder if that makes you a former alumnus. Being an alumnus doesn't require a degree, does it?
  - paulgb 14y ago
    If you really want to be pedantic, if he is a cofounder, he was a cofounder too. As Mitch Hedberg said, "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to too"
    - JonnieCache 14y ago
      He doesn't any more. :(
      - JonnieCache 14y ago
        Hmmm. Just in case I am being misunderstood - I'm not sad because he stopped doing drugs. I'm sad because the reason he stopped doing drugs was because he died of a heroin overdose.
jhund 14y ago
Check out the name of Greg's new company. I'm sure it's designed to sound like the original company: * Wakemate: By Perfect Third Inc. (http://wakemate.com/about/ http://wakemate.com/about/) * MiLife+: By Three Thirds Inc. (http://www.indiegogo.com/GregNemeth http://www.indiegogo.com/GregNemeth) Somehow this all reminds me of the JooJoo tablet (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/crunchpad-tablet-joojoo/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/crunchpad-tablet-jooj...). Picking the right Co-founders is so important! I would not start a company with a person unless we have a proven track record and have built trust over several years and having worked together on a number of projects.
- technotony 14y ago
  That is easy to say, but often you don't know exactly the right person with the right skill set at the time you need them. If you only work with people you have known for several years you are going to have a slow time growing your company.
  - jhund 14y ago
    I was referring to co-founders only in my comment about trust and track record. I agree that at some point you will have to bring people on board that you haven't known for that long, but then the risk is also a lot smaller since they won't be co-founders.
    - veemjeem 14y ago
      So you'll only bring on people with a proven track record of having multiple past exits? That severely limits your options... plus why would someone with multiple successful exits want to work with you?
      - swombat 14y ago
        No, he's saying the exact opposite of that. Bringing people on board doesn't require as much pickiness as choosing cofounders.
  - 14y ago
kurtvarner 14y ago
He got a hold of their Twitter account too. Check the stream, as the interactions are hilarious. https://twitter.com/#!/wakemate https://twitter.com/#!/wakemate (but hurry because I'm sure the tweets will be gone soon).

dm8 14y ago

Not sure about others but for me its a dead link.

gergles 14y ago
For me as well - I get redirected to a domain squatting page. [ld] [~] nslookup blog.wakemate.com Non-authoritative answer: Name: blog.wakemate.com Address: 208.43.167.112

rdl 14y ago

Wow, this was classy (presumably by Greg). Best of luck with whatever you do next. Software is way easier :)

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

brittohalloran 14y ago

Some people are having trouble accessing it: WakeMate Update Hello everyone. MiLife+ Many of you received an email this morning concerning a new product called MiLife+. Today is the first time I have heard of this product and I am shocked at the way it was promoted to WakeMate customers. We are not affliated with this product in any way. It was completely unauthorized and I am scrambling to get to the bottom of it. I sincerely apologize that you received those unsolicited messages. What’s Next? I poured my heart and soul into this company and though we stumbled along the way I believe that we provided something of value to our customers. However, as many of you have guessed, we have exhausted our capital and will no longer be making any more WakeMates. Currently our plan is to keep the service going while we work on open sourcing the technology. Hopefully this will ensure that you can continue to enjoy the product and its benefits even after the company no longer exists. As always if you have any concerns please email me and I will do my best to resolve them: arun[at]wakemate[dot]com. all the best, Arun Gupta co-founder of WakeMate

matmann2001 14y ago

That font kinda hurts my eyes.

natrius 14y ago

Regardless of the drama, I can't imagine buying anything from someone involved with WakeMate after the horrible experience the first time around. $50 spent, and it never succeeded in tracking a night of my sleep. There are other products out there these days that actually work.

nathos 14y ago
As another person who spent money on WakeMate but never got it work properly, I couldn't agree more. WakeMate was fraught with delays and the product they actually shipped looked nothing like their concept art or "prototype". Heck, they even shipped power adapters that were a fire hazard and never replaced them. Sad that this latest shadiness from a (former?) WakeMate person doesn't surprise me in the least.
- finin 14y ago
  I never got my promised replacement power adapter either. I thought it was just me. :-(
  - spydertennis 14y ago
    I'm really sorry about that. We kept trying but never had the cash to source a replacement and get it re-certified for use with our product.
    - uptown 14y ago
      How much would it have cost to communicate that by email to customers that were waiting for a replacement?
- ch0wn 14y ago
  The worst part, in my opinion, was the miserable communication. I had some contact with their support and they kept promising updates to their software over and over again. Of course, this never happened.

covercash 14y ago

I've had some great email exchanges with Arun and he has been nothing but helpful and honest. The fact that he is continuing to work on this product says a lot. Any team would be lucky to have a guy like him on it. I hope this mess gets straightened out.

brittohalloran 14y ago
seems like he's doing the right thing
danielsiders 14y ago
So have I, he seems like a great guy, is really concerned about the users, and is committed to taking it open source very soon. Sorry he's been dragged into this mess.

timbowen 14y ago

I used to work for WakeMate - feel free to ask me anything. This insane action from Greg doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

swombat 14y ago
I have three questions: 1) WTF? 2) How close is pg to this whole mess? I'm guessing this is no longer in his sphere of influence, but it would seem that given that Wakemate is a YC company he should probably clarify YC's position on this debacle. I realise this is more a question to pg than to you, but I guess you might have an opinion. 3) Do you think the problem that ultimately killed the company was a mismatch between the founders, or did that evolve as a result of the multitude of problems that the company encountered? I'm getting a hunch that all these mistakes by the company could have been the result of lacking a clear direction/leadership.
- timbowen 14y ago
  1.) LOL I dunno! 2.) I never talked to PG, I can't speak to that. 3.) The problems were absolutely cumulative over the course of development. Neither Greg nor Arun were engineers or technical in any way and the hardware developer had a full time job that was not WakeMate. I started ~1.5 months before launch and was told the hardware was functional. I managed to get the iOS version to work most of the time but the firmware was hosed in such a way that pretty much all units would fail over the course of a few months.
  - davidroetzel 14y ago
    > the firmware was hosed in such a way that pretty much all units would fail over the course of a few months I initially had some good experiences with the android version which then got more and more unreliable until I stopped using it altogether. I was led to believe that this was due to bugs in the android app. Are you now saying that it is actually a firmware bug on the devices? And if yes, is there any hope to have this fixed once everything is open sourced?

drewcrawford 14y ago

This is as good of a place as any to ask: Greg seems to be trying to charge not only a $150 fee to access the API (see price tiers), but also an unknown % cut of all app revenue: http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus http://www.indiegogo.com/MiLifePlus It's one thing for Apple to do this when they have a huge install base, but is this really a smart move for a product with an install base of zero? What would possibly motivate me to shell out $250+ plus my hourly rate plus a revenue cut for an unproven hardware device with a customer base that is (generously) 1500 people? Disclaimer: I've had many bad experiences with WakeMate.

rabidonrails 14y ago
It's interesting to see him use the YC brand to launch his new company -- are they associated? Can he just walk with the WakeMate IP? Also, why does he seem to be whispering in the video? It's freakin me out. Update: Even more interesting, it seems that Greg had been tweeting from @wakemate even after leaving...shady shady shady
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - technotony 14y ago
    Do you have more details on how they did this/what happened?
vaksel 14y ago
yeah it would make much more sense for them to just use the % cut. Get a bunch of developers tied to their platform...and get that market share

scottschulthess 14y ago

I dont see why everyone is interested in sleep aide devices. I don't really give a crap about how much I roll around in my sleep, nor some BS about circadian rythms

drx 14y ago
I don't see why everyone is interested in blood sugar aide devices. I don't really give a crap about how much insulin my body produces, nor some BS about insulin resistance.
- qq66 14y ago
  The comparison is strained because blood sugar devices are specifically marketed to diabetics. I see that most sleep aid devices are marketed to the general population -- the messaging isn't "are you having trouble sleeping?" it's "Do you want to be a more effective person? Track your sleep!"
  - delackner 14y ago
    Most people in the US today have chronic sleep deprivation. Just because most people are used to not being healthy doesn't mean it is normal (over the course of human history).
    - mibbitier 14y ago
      Most people in the US today are also obese.
- scottschulthess 14y ago
  I don't hate on people being interested in it I'm just surprised that people are:)
rdl 14y ago
I like my Zeo because it lets me know when I actually got to sleep, and shows that REM happens toward the end of sleep, which is why an extra hour in the morning is so seductive every morning. The "wake in between REM stages" feature is actually pretty nice.

deleted 14y ago

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dmix 14y ago

I knew something was up with that email from MiLife+ this morning. They're website was an awful Godaddy generated site (http://www.milifeplus.com/ http://www.milifeplus.com/) and the video had a creepy audio narration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCZQvguYTqg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCZQvguYTqg Plus the wristband looked like a 5 minute CAD job with not effort.

jedc 14y ago
And the video mentioned the project was on Kickstarter when it's actually on some other random crowdfunding site.
irons 14y ago
Not to mention the huge-type "Click here for all the detials" typo. Painful.

forkrulassail 14y ago

I really hate the 2 WakeMates I bought. I was given support up to a point, and then nothing. First there was app problems, then I got stuck with two devices with not enough battery power to last a night. People shouldn't release weak beta products.

jowiar 14y ago
This is a fundamental difference between hardware and software. You can release beta SW. You can't release beta HW.
- forkrulassail 14y ago
  Fully agreed. This product sucks. They stole $120 from me and made me a bad gift giver. I'm glad they're going under. I'm replacing my simply warn-out SleepTracker.

kevinpet 14y ago

Does anyone have a pointer to the backstory to this? The response and the discussion here don't make a lot of sense without knowing about what previously happened.

brittohalloran 14y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4167436 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4167436
rabidonrails 14y ago
Here's what I can tell you from what I've gathered. --There was WakeMate, a YC company --They were having issues (with hardware, customers...) --Greg (one of the founders) left --He started a new company that is trying to make a similar product by crowdfunding the capital needed --He emailed all of the WakeMate users --Nobody told Arun (another founder) --Arun discontinued WakeMate and apologized to the WakeMate users for the unauthorized email I think you're caught up.

mvid 14y ago

Ex wakemate engineer as well, documenting all of this: http://storify.com/mvidutis/wakemate-returns http://storify.com/mvidutis/wakemate-returns Ask me anything

davidroetzel 14y ago
Are you involved in the open sourcing arun hinted at? If yes, what will this include and when can we expect to see some code?
- spydertennis 14y ago
  I don't want to give any concrete details yet (this forced a premature announcement). We are hoping to include everything one would need to replicate the product.
- mvid 14y ago
  As far as I have heard, no.

ivankirigin 14y ago

Shutting down a company is no fun, so I wish them luck. Considering the problems with Jawbone's Up (which I also bought), I think we can all agree that making hardware is... err.. hard. There is definitely something of value here, and I hope someone gets it right.

mrbill 14y ago

My Wakemate worked great, and I even bought the bigger wristband for it, but didn't use it after I switched to a Galaxy Nexus from an iPhone 4 back in December.

deleted 14y ago

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davidroetzel 14y ago

Now that it is official that WakeMate is dead, it would be great to see some kind of post mortem. People keep iterating that hardware is not as easy as software, but WakeMate actually solved some of the biggest problems, including being allowed to sell the devices in the EU (for which you need to meet some requirements many small hardware companies do not want to deal with). I would love to read about what actually went wrong. I guess there are some great lessons to be learned here.

spydertennis 14y ago
David, planning on writing something up soon! Hopefully other people can learn from our many trials and tribulations. Getting EU certification was actually pretty easy. I'll be sure to include information on that.
- wickedchicken 14y ago
  Hey Arun, just wanted to say that I was a (burned) WakeMate customer but once I got a hold of you I did get a refund. Sounds like you hit some rough times, but I appreciate how far you guys actually got. Good luck on whatever comes next.

natep 14y ago

Ignoring the scandal in all of this, I don't think the product would work for me for the same reasons other sleep tracking apps didn't: added stress. While waiting for my WakeMate to arrive, I tracked nearly every moment of my sleep with the SleepBot Tracker app. Every night that I didn't get the magical target of 8 hours, I not only felt worse for lack of sleep, I felt like I had failed something. My sleep debt grew, and I spent so much time calculating the logistics of how I could get everything done and "catch up" on sleep that I think I got less sleep overall and of the same low quality (e.g. 4+12 != 8+8). Then the WakeMate arrived, and all it did was add more numbers, and a new headache to deal with in the morning. This would appear to solve that problem by making specific recommendations, but then what about when I inevitably do not fall asleep at the optimum time? I know it would be useless to stress about that kind of thing, since I know I'm currently getting very sub-optimal sleep, and any improvement would be just that, but I think I know how my mind would behave anyways. Does that make sense?

tlrobinson 14y ago

Sheesh. Leaving a company to start a direct competitor is already asking for trouble. Stealing their email list, hijacking their Twitter account, and actually admitting to using "the WakeMate sensor technology" in your new product is a great way to get to get the crap sued out of you.

unreal37 14y ago
Although the company (wakemate) is deadpool, and the founder says they'll just open source the technology.

millerc 14y ago

With all the hate going on about WakeMate, I have to give my 2 cents. I bought the product immediately after seeing the power adapter fiasco, and still use my WakeMate to this day. At times it does feel like you have to be an engineer to know what you're doing and keep the thing running (I can attest to timing issues leaving the bluetooth transmitter blaring full power at night and the battery dead in the morning), but as with any "bleeding edge" product you have to respect it if you want it to respect you. Seeing the company at the end of its funds even though they have an awesome product, cries of marketing mistakes. Seeing WakeMate's marketing manager take off with the mailing list, confirms to me that Greg was a poor fit, and not the best person to watch over WakeMate's interests. Arun if you're reading this, I sincerely hope you'll send an email along the lines of "the previous announcement was sent by one of our previous employees, WakeMate does not endorse that product". My mailbox still thinks WakeMate and Greg are "taking it to the next step", and seeing what I see here, it does not leave a good taste in my mouth. Best of luck to you.

spydertennis 14y ago
Working on it!

unreal37 14y ago

I have been following the wakemate story since the beginning. Ordered a wakemate (with the $5 deposit) from almost the beginning. Waited anxiously for months for the device. Luckily, when the time eventually came for shipping, I declined to complete the order. Great idea. Trying to solve a difficult problem and break new ground. But obviously the execution problems were evident from the first few months of missed deliverables and poor communication. Good luck to Arun and the team on the next great idea. Kinda scummy that a co-founder went and started a company in the same space, stealing the twitter and email list in the process. How is this in any way going to get consumers to trust him?

SoftwareMaven 14y ago

I had some dealings with Greg and Arun early in the Wakemate lifecycle (they were looking for a programmer, I was looking for something interesting), but my schedule blew up right about that time (working at a game studio will do that to you). I always hoped they would succeed. They both seemed sharp and, more importantly, highly driven. Sad to see it deadpool. Even more sad to see shady tactics by a founder.

nothacker 14y ago

Ah- I thought this was the same Arun Gupta that does Glassfish at Oracle, but this is the YC Arun Gupta. Seems like a middle initial or nickname might help.

spydertennis 14y ago

Update: I have spoken with Greg and the indiegogo is being taken down. Sorry to everyone who got an unsolicited email or donated to the campaign.

kloncks 14y ago
Glad to see the situation (semi) sorted out. Tragic that all this had to happen so publicly, instead of just a conversation between the two of you. I've always been a fan of the WakeMate. Best of luck moving forward.

carbocation 14y ago

I forwarded this to can spam ( spam@uce.gov ), because I never authorized MiLifePlus to send me email.

yycom 14y ago

Is this Hacker News, or Hacker Random Communiqués? Where's the news?

chaistudios 14y ago
It's an interesting insight into the ups and downs of running a startup.

covercash 14y ago

Arun just sent out a final update to the WakeMate mailing list, hopefully wrapping up this fiasco: WakeMate Update Hello WakeMaters! MiLife+ Many of you received an email this morning concerning a new product called MiLife+. I want to make it clear that WakeMate is not affiliated with this product in any way. Today was the first time I have heard of this product and I am shocked at the way it was promoted to WakeMate customers. Our mailing list was used without our knowledge by a former WakeMate employee, Greg. Fortunately no other user information was compromised and I am deleting the mailing list. For those of you who have donated to the Indiegogo project I have contacted Greg and Indiegogo and it is being taken down. You will all receive your money back. What’s Next? I poured my heart and soul into this company and though we stumbled along the way I believe that we provided something of value to our customers. However, as many of you have guessed, we have exhausted our capital and will no longer be making any more WakeMates. Currently our plan is to keep the service going while we work on open sourcing the technology. Hopefully this will ensure that you can continue to enjoy the product and its benefits even after the company no longer exists. I am very sorry for the unsolicited emails. This email list will not be used again. all the best, Arun Gupta co-founder of WakeMate

jabr 14y ago

The WakeMate product itself was good and actually worked for most people (myself included). This was a legitimate goodwill measure post, so why are most/some of you taking the opportunity to bash these people?

rsaarelm 14y ago

A bit off topic given the drama going on, but I've been wanting to see stats about people who got a WakeMate and used it continuously for at least a month for a while now. Will you still have a consistently easier time waking up after your body has had several weeks to adapt to the new regimen, or will you just adapt and resume trying to oversleep past the alarm? (Also, what about the same but with a month using a Zeo instead of a WakeMate?)

airyana 14y ago

Is it possible to get a list of all the hardware / firmware issues that were collected so that those of us out here who want to refurb our sleeping WakeMates could make an event of it? Ex: I know I have trouble with mine dying before the night is over. Is it possible to get the firmware version that doesn't blast at full strength all night? I would love to get it back up and running ^.^