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Clean & jerk is one of those movements that I would almost consider "complete". Especially if you are going to mix in variants of the squat. Not sure these are

Clean & jerk is one of those movements that I would almost consider "complete". Especially if you are going to mix in variants of the squat. Not sure these are the best example. I don't know of anyone who can C&J more than their body weight for multiple repetitions who isn't also an absolute terminator at most other meaningful aspects of human fitness. Human body is one machine. Hormonal responses are global. Endurance/strength is a spectrum but the whole body goes along for the ride.

netcan 2y ago
Perhaps. And you could probably test this but I would gamble that the principle still applies. IE, these weightlifters are probably also very capable (eg) shotputters because of all that weightlifting. But also... their shotput, sprinting and other tangential abilities probably peak at some point. From then on, they are mostly just getting stronger at clean and jerk. > Hormonal responses are global. Endurance/strength is a spectrum but the whole body goes along for the ride. This is true, and that is why most exercise is a general good for most people, and has similar physiological effects. However, at some point "specialization" (term of art), kicks in. At that point, a bigger clean and jerk no longer equates to a longer shot put. Fwiw... This isn't a point about exercise or how to exercise. Most people aren't that specialized or advanced in a sport and the ones who are have coaches. My point is that the phenomenon speculated to be broad in this post applies (I suspect) to physiology. Probably quite broadly. It's just easy to think about it in terms of sports because "training & optimization" directly apply.
- travisjungroth 2y ago
  I agree with your overall point, but also the person you’re replying to. I think that clean and jerk may be the example that least supports your argument. If I had to optimize an athlete for one movement and then test them on 20, C&J would probably be my pick. Bench press would be lower down the list. This isn’t just nit picking exercises here. There are some measures to optimize for that lead to broader performance. They tend to be more complex and test all components of the system.
rootusrootus 2y ago
IMO deadlift is another good one. If you could only do a single lift, I think you could make a pretty good case that it should be deadlift. Works damn near every muscle in your body, and gets your heart going pretty good too.
- anthonypasq 2y ago
  the deadlift has no pushing component and no coordination component. Clean and jerk is probably strictly superior

netcan 2y ago

Perhaps. And you could probably test this but I would gamble that the principle still applies. IE, these weightlifters are probably also very capable (eg) shotputters because of all that weightlifting. But also... their shotput, sprinting and other tangential abilities probably peak at some point. From then on, they are mostly just getting stronger at clean and jerk. > Hormonal responses are global. Endurance/strength is a spectrum but the whole body goes along for the ride. This is true, and that is why most exercise is a general good for most people, and has similar physiological effects. However, at some point "specialization" (term of art), kicks in. At that point, a bigger clean and jerk no longer equates to a longer shot put. Fwiw... This isn't a point about exercise or how to exercise. Most people aren't that specialized or advanced in a sport and the ones who are have coaches. My point is that the phenomenon speculated to be broad in this post applies (I suspect) to physiology. Probably quite broadly. It's just easy to think about it in terms of sports because "training & optimization" directly apply.

travisjungroth 2y ago
I agree with your overall point, but also the person you’re replying to. I think that clean and jerk may be the example that least supports your argument. If I had to optimize an athlete for one movement and then test them on 20, C&J would probably be my pick. Bench press would be lower down the list. This isn’t just nit picking exercises here. There are some measures to optimize for that lead to broader performance. They tend to be more complex and test all components of the system.

rootusrootus 2y ago

IMO deadlift is another good one. If you could only do a single lift, I think you could make a pretty good case that it should be deadlift. Works damn near every muscle in your body, and gets your heart going pretty good too.

anthonypasq 2y ago
the deadlift has no pushing component and no coordination component. Clean and jerk is probably strictly superior