6 ms·

Good for them. Considering the injustice of the sentence given out (relative to what others have gotten for far worse crimes), I'm considering having a go myse

Good for them. Considering the injustice of the sentence given out (relative to what others have gotten for far worse crimes), I'm considering having a go myself. Everyone get a soup tin ... In other news, the incoming new government have had to release many small time prisoners because of the prison overcrowding crisis in the UK.

WalterBright 2y ago
Vandalism of art treasures is a serious crime in that it degrades society. It's why we cannot have nice things. Why would you want a society that has to lock up art, has to have expensive security, has to search people entering a museum, etc.? You're never going to make me sympathetic towards the goal of such terrorism, quite the reverse.
- holsta 2y ago
  > Vandalism of art treasures is a serious crime in that it degrades society. You'll never believe what our current levels of CO2 does to society.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Associating your cause with vandals, criminals, thugs, obnoxious people, etc., will not help your cause. It'll hurt it. There's a reason why businesses do not market their products that way.
  - simondotau 2y ago
    I take the climate seriously and do my part to minimise how much of my footprint contributes to fucking around with the chemistry of our atmosphere. It's clear that changes to CO2 levels will change our climate in ways that will have global sociopolitical and socioeconomic consequences. There is no reliable evidence[0] that CO2 has an effect on human cognition or on "society." High indoor CO2 levels aren't bad because of the CO2, it's bad because it's a marker of poor ventilation. And poor ventilation has many consequences for the chemical makeup of that air. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32557862/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32557862/
  - snehk 2y ago
    And if all their demands were met today - or let's say the UK ceases to exist today and doesn't emit anything anymore - how would that impact climate change? Last time I checked the methods of measuring temperature via satellites was not percise enough to even account for that scenario. It's like stealing ten people's drinking water so that you can put out a big forest fire. Knowing it will not at all impact the forest fire but it will sure as hell make the ten people angry. And then celebrating yourself for doing something. It's beyond stupid. They're almost as bad as the ones in Germany who glued themselves to the streets and then couldn't show up to court because they flew to Bali. These people are seriously something.
    - throw0101b 2y ago
      In case anyone was curious like I was: > Given a choice between a Stuttgart court date or a sandy, balmy beach in Bali, it’s clear how most people would decide. > Now Luisa and Yannick, two young radical German climate activists, are learning to their cost that they may have made the wrong choice. > Last September in Stuttgart the two participated in a climate protest by the group Last Generation, gluing their hands to a city street and blocking traffic beneath a banner reading: “Save oil don’t drill.” […] > A Last Generation spokesperson told Bild: “They booked the flight as private persons, not as climate protectionists. That must be kept separate.” * https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/02/03/german-climate-activists-swap-court-date-for-bali-holiday/ https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/02/03/german-cl...
  - tzs 2y ago
    That's a pretty ridiculous argument for a couple of reasons. 1. Vandalism of art does nothing to advance dealing with high CO2 levels. The problems with CO2 have been widely reported. It is a major issue in most major democracies that comes up for debate in most major elections. So it is not going to do anything measurable to raise awareness of the issue. 2. The same argument works for anything that does less harm than our current CO2 levels. If I protested CO2 levels by going around slapping babies, would that be an acceptable form of protest? Slapping a few babies, even hard enough to cause some brain damage, causes less harm than CO2 levels being too high.
- LightBug1 2y ago
  I don't disagree with their right to protest in seemingly vandalistic ways (read your history). I don't agree that priceless art is above the importance of our planet or the lives of people. But I do disagree with their tactics. But only because they are not working. They are getting attention, but at the expense of the logical failure of the recipients of the message through their outrage.
  - simondotau 2y ago
    Their tactics don't work because they aren't choosing tactics based on effectiveness. Attention is all they care about, because they're narcissists.
    - LightBug1 2y ago
      Possibly. I wouldn't know. It's possible you don't either.
      - simondotau 2y ago
        Sure, if you want to be pedantic, it's impossible to know anyone's true motives for anything. Actually we're talking about a group of people, so each person in the group will have their own set of (potentially wildly divergent) motives. Well played, sir. What I can (and in fact did) say with a high level of certainty is that they aren't choosing their tactics based on effectiveness. They're choosing their tactics based on maximising attention on themselves. This is consistent with narcissism. Of course we don't have to read minds in order to judge someone's actions. If someone says they want <A>, and they continuously persist in doing a thing which has no plausible pathway of ever achieving <A>, but is reliably and consistently achieving <B>, it's reasonable to infer that what they actually care about is <B>.
  - edanm 2y ago
    > I don't agree that priceless art is above the importance of our planet or the lives of people. This is just a false dichotomy. You don't, in general, have to choose between priceless art and the importance of our planet.
simondotau 2y ago
I think it's perfectly reasonable to add a sentencing multiplier for crimes with the intent of notoriety, as a deterrent for copycat behaviour. JSO are a cult of narcissistic anarchists who use environmentalism as a mere aesthetic — as cover for their true goal, which is the "protests" themselves.

WalterBright 2y ago

Vandalism of art treasures is a serious crime in that it degrades society. It's why we cannot have nice things. Why would you want a society that has to lock up art, has to have expensive security, has to search people entering a museum, etc.? You're never going to make me sympathetic towards the goal of such terrorism, quite the reverse.

holsta 2y ago
> Vandalism of art treasures is a serious crime in that it degrades society. You'll never believe what our current levels of CO2 does to society.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Associating your cause with vandals, criminals, thugs, obnoxious people, etc., will not help your cause. It'll hurt it. There's a reason why businesses do not market their products that way.
- simondotau 2y ago
  I take the climate seriously and do my part to minimise how much of my footprint contributes to fucking around with the chemistry of our atmosphere. It's clear that changes to CO2 levels will change our climate in ways that will have global sociopolitical and socioeconomic consequences. There is no reliable evidence[0] that CO2 has an effect on human cognition or on "society." High indoor CO2 levels aren't bad because of the CO2, it's bad because it's a marker of poor ventilation. And poor ventilation has many consequences for the chemical makeup of that air. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32557862/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32557862/
- snehk 2y ago
  And if all their demands were met today - or let's say the UK ceases to exist today and doesn't emit anything anymore - how would that impact climate change? Last time I checked the methods of measuring temperature via satellites was not percise enough to even account for that scenario. It's like stealing ten people's drinking water so that you can put out a big forest fire. Knowing it will not at all impact the forest fire but it will sure as hell make the ten people angry. And then celebrating yourself for doing something. It's beyond stupid. They're almost as bad as the ones in Germany who glued themselves to the streets and then couldn't show up to court because they flew to Bali. These people are seriously something.
  - throw0101b 2y ago
    In case anyone was curious like I was: > Given a choice between a Stuttgart court date or a sandy, balmy beach in Bali, it’s clear how most people would decide. > Now Luisa and Yannick, two young radical German climate activists, are learning to their cost that they may have made the wrong choice. > Last September in Stuttgart the two participated in a climate protest by the group Last Generation, gluing their hands to a city street and blocking traffic beneath a banner reading: “Save oil don’t drill.” […] > A Last Generation spokesperson told Bild: “They booked the flight as private persons, not as climate protectionists. That must be kept separate.” * https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/02/03/german-climate-activists-swap-court-date-for-bali-holiday/ https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/02/03/german-cl...
- tzs 2y ago
  That's a pretty ridiculous argument for a couple of reasons. 1. Vandalism of art does nothing to advance dealing with high CO2 levels. The problems with CO2 have been widely reported. It is a major issue in most major democracies that comes up for debate in most major elections. So it is not going to do anything measurable to raise awareness of the issue. 2. The same argument works for anything that does less harm than our current CO2 levels. If I protested CO2 levels by going around slapping babies, would that be an acceptable form of protest? Slapping a few babies, even hard enough to cause some brain damage, causes less harm than CO2 levels being too high.
LightBug1 2y ago
I don't disagree with their right to protest in seemingly vandalistic ways (read your history). I don't agree that priceless art is above the importance of our planet or the lives of people. But I do disagree with their tactics. But only because they are not working. They are getting attention, but at the expense of the logical failure of the recipients of the message through their outrage.
- simondotau 2y ago
  Their tactics don't work because they aren't choosing tactics based on effectiveness. Attention is all they care about, because they're narcissists.
  - LightBug1 2y ago
    Possibly. I wouldn't know. It's possible you don't either.
    - simondotau 2y ago
      Sure, if you want to be pedantic, it's impossible to know anyone's true motives for anything. Actually we're talking about a group of people, so each person in the group will have their own set of (potentially wildly divergent) motives. Well played, sir. What I can (and in fact did) say with a high level of certainty is that they aren't choosing their tactics based on effectiveness. They're choosing their tactics based on maximising attention on themselves. This is consistent with narcissism. Of course we don't have to read minds in order to judge someone's actions. If someone says they want <A>, and they continuously persist in doing a thing which has no plausible pathway of ever achieving <A>, but is reliably and consistently achieving <B>, it's reasonable to infer that what they actually care about is <B>.
- edanm 2y ago
  > I don't agree that priceless art is above the importance of our planet or the lives of people. This is just a false dichotomy. You don't, in general, have to choose between priceless art and the importance of our planet.

simondotau 2y ago

I think it's perfectly reasonable to add a sentencing multiplier for crimes with the intent of notoriety, as a deterrent for copycat behaviour. JSO are a cult of narcissistic anarchists who use environmentalism as a mere aesthetic — as cover for their true goal, which is the "protests" themselves.