4 ms·

I don't think that is "very perfect being the enemy of the good" at all. Any new energy source (like fusion) would be a very real threat to mankind, see also ht

I don't think that is "very perfect being the enemy of the good" at all. Any new energy source (like fusion) would be a very real threat to mankind, see also https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist...

hcurtiss 2y ago
He very early assumes/disregards we remain confined to earth. In the face of exponentially growing energy resources, this is a terrible assumption.
- carapace 2y ago
  Do you imagine we will box up our terrestrial waste heat and launch it into the sun? The portion people who leave the Earth do not matter, the fate of the portion who remain remains the same. See "Arithmetic, Population and Energy: Sustainability 101", Al Bartlett https://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_population_energy.html https://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_populati... Full length video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI1C9DyIi_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI1C9DyIi_8
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    The point is that you can have exponential growth in human energy consumption without exponentially heating the Earth by having the growth take place off-planet. Which is hardly irrelevant to the people still there, e.g. if you find your data centers are using too much power, put them in space. The computation may take a megawatt-hour but transmitting the result back to the surface is only a few watt-seconds for a radio link. Likewise, the humans who live on other planets can be consuming local energy without heating Earth, and the people still on Earth would still get the value of their inventions, discoveries and writings.
    - carapace 2y ago
      > you can have exponential growth in human energy consumption without exponentially heating the Earth by having the growth take place off-planet No. It doesn't matter, unless you postulate that the people left behind have zero population growth and constant energy dissipation, which seems unrealistic? In any event exponential growth in human energy consumption is physically unrealizable. Eventually the whole solar system resembles a red giant star, and sooner than you might think. - - - - The point is that anyone who good enough at physics to invent a free energy generator also understands why it must be kept secret. Some secrets keep themselves. That's why you can't buy one even though there are videos on the YT showing how to make them. Like the Philosophers' Stone the point of the technology is the internal transformation it engenders when you actually confront the thing itself.
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        > It doesn't matter, unless you postulate that the people left behind have zero population growth and constant energy dissipation, which seems unrealistic? Why does it seem unrealistic? More than that, you only need one of those things. You could have population growth with declining energy consumption if energy use is moved off-planet (even if the population benefits from the off-planet use), or increasing local energy use per-capita if local population is declining, e.g. because the number of people leaving to explore other planets is higher than the population growth rate. > Eventually the whole solar system resembles a red giant star, and sooner than you might think. The universe is a lot bigger than the solar system. > That's why you can't buy one even though there are videos on the YT showing how to make them. Uh, nope. That's not why you can't buy one.
        carapace 2y ago
        At this point we're just trading sci-fi story ideas. If we can learn to manage our population growth and/or energy consumption growth, then that's awesome! Watch the Bartlett lecture.
        2y ago
  - naasking 2y ago
    > Do you imagine we will box up our terrestrial waste heat and launch it into the sun? The Earth sheds its own heat into outer space via black body radiation, and we can help this process by shedding heat in specific infrared bands that pass right through the atmosphere. We already have radiative cooling paints that do this, and they can achieve sub-ambient air temps in full sunlight: * https://www.sri.com/fcd_technology/self-cooling-paint-a-passive-radiative-cooling-solution/ https://www.sri.com/fcd_technology/self-cooling-paint-a-pass... * https://cera.cool/ https://cera.cool/ * https://hackaday.com/2023/07/03/cooling-paint-you-can-actually-make/ https://hackaday.com/2023/07/03/cooling-paint-you-can-actual...
    - carapace 2y ago
      Yes, and those are really cool and I want some. We might be able to somehow collect heat (with superconductors? I don't know) and beam it into space, but that still doesn't solve the problem. Please watch the Bartlett lecture, please?

hcurtiss 2y ago

He very early assumes/disregards we remain confined to earth. In the face of exponentially growing energy resources, this is a terrible assumption.

carapace 2y ago
Do you imagine we will box up our terrestrial waste heat and launch it into the sun? The portion people who leave the Earth do not matter, the fate of the portion who remain remains the same. See "Arithmetic, Population and Energy: Sustainability 101", Al Bartlett https://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_population_energy.html https://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_populati... Full length video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI1C9DyIi_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI1C9DyIi_8
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  The point is that you can have exponential growth in human energy consumption without exponentially heating the Earth by having the growth take place off-planet. Which is hardly irrelevant to the people still there, e.g. if you find your data centers are using too much power, put them in space. The computation may take a megawatt-hour but transmitting the result back to the surface is only a few watt-seconds for a radio link. Likewise, the humans who live on other planets can be consuming local energy without heating Earth, and the people still on Earth would still get the value of their inventions, discoveries and writings.
  - carapace 2y ago
    > you can have exponential growth in human energy consumption without exponentially heating the Earth by having the growth take place off-planet No. It doesn't matter, unless you postulate that the people left behind have zero population growth and constant energy dissipation, which seems unrealistic? In any event exponential growth in human energy consumption is physically unrealizable. Eventually the whole solar system resembles a red giant star, and sooner than you might think. - - - - The point is that anyone who good enough at physics to invent a free energy generator also understands why it must be kept secret. Some secrets keep themselves. That's why you can't buy one even though there are videos on the YT showing how to make them. Like the Philosophers' Stone the point of the technology is the internal transformation it engenders when you actually confront the thing itself.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      > It doesn't matter, unless you postulate that the people left behind have zero population growth and constant energy dissipation, which seems unrealistic? Why does it seem unrealistic? More than that, you only need one of those things. You could have population growth with declining energy consumption if energy use is moved off-planet (even if the population benefits from the off-planet use), or increasing local energy use per-capita if local population is declining, e.g. because the number of people leaving to explore other planets is higher than the population growth rate. > Eventually the whole solar system resembles a red giant star, and sooner than you might think. The universe is a lot bigger than the solar system. > That's why you can't buy one even though there are videos on the YT showing how to make them. Uh, nope. That's not why you can't buy one.
      - carapace 2y ago
        At this point we're just trading sci-fi story ideas. If we can learn to manage our population growth and/or energy consumption growth, then that's awesome! Watch the Bartlett lecture.
        2y ago
- naasking 2y ago
  > Do you imagine we will box up our terrestrial waste heat and launch it into the sun? The Earth sheds its own heat into outer space via black body radiation, and we can help this process by shedding heat in specific infrared bands that pass right through the atmosphere. We already have radiative cooling paints that do this, and they can achieve sub-ambient air temps in full sunlight: * https://www.sri.com/fcd_technology/self-cooling-paint-a-passive-radiative-cooling-solution/ https://www.sri.com/fcd_technology/self-cooling-paint-a-pass... * https://cera.cool/ https://cera.cool/ * https://hackaday.com/2023/07/03/cooling-paint-you-can-actually-make/ https://hackaday.com/2023/07/03/cooling-paint-you-can-actual...
  - carapace 2y ago
    Yes, and those are really cool and I want some. We might be able to somehow collect heat (with superconductors? I don't know) and beam it into space, but that still doesn't solve the problem. Please watch the Bartlett lecture, please?