3 ms·

ammonium nitrate is safe till you accidentally mix it with something like fuel oil. It would be trivial for an inspector to go look and see if such mixing has

ammonium nitrate is safe till you accidentally mix it with something like fuel oil. It would be trivial for an inspector to go look and see if such mixing has occurred... and if it has not, let it into port to sell the cargo.

adastra22 2y ago
Ammonium nitrate is explosive by itself. It doesn’t need fuel or oxidizer. By adjusting its pH level the breakdown reaction can be prevented and the compound stabilized, but it decays over time or when improperly stored.
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  In my humble understanding among I’m nitrate is a oxidizer (or a precursor of it). Am I wrong ? How would it explode without a fuel ?
  - adastra22 2y ago
    2NH₄NO₃ (s) → 2N₂ (g) + O₂ (g) + 4H₂O (g) Only happens spontaneously at high temperature/pressure. But of course being an explosive reaction, once it starts in a little pocket of material, all the neighboring material experiences a lot of heat and pressure, and blows up. And then the next layer, and the next layer, etc. If improperly stored, pockets form with different pH values that cause it to spontaneously occur at lower temperatures. Or a spark, or a compressive event in an unstable patch, etc.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
      Or, if the ship is indeed being used as a weapon, a "small" hidden charge of military explosives that will be hard to find after a kiloton-scale explosion.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppau_explosion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppau_explosion suggests that pure AN is also explosive. As far as I know, the explosion that leveled part of Beirut was mostly assumed to be caused by uncontaminated AN too.
    - dist-epoch 2y ago
      It was stored in the same warehouse with fireworks, and in the videos you can see them explode shortly before the big explosion.
      - adastra22 2y ago
        Yes the fire was required to set off the ammonium nitrate. But that’s just to initiate the explosion, and there are many ways it could have been initiated. A single spark would have done the job. But you do not need to mix fuel with the fertilizer to activate it. It provides its own fuel.
        dist-epoch 2y ago
        My understanding is that uncontaminated ammonium nitrate does not explode when exposed to fire. Fuel contamination is required.
        adastra22 2y ago
        You are confusing with potassium nitrate I think. Ammonium is a fuel, nitrate is an oxidizer. Ammonium nitrate is a perfectly mixed explosive.
aziaziazi 2y ago
Fuel oil… or any combustible basically. A famous combustible to mix with is sugar. Cheap and mis wert well with it, still stable if no heat source. I hardly imagine how an inspector can "look" if there’s any king of combustible hidden in the lower layers of the ship cargo.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  A sampler on a stick is used, which can be poked down to the bottom to get a sample from the bottom - useful for contaminants which are heavy or liquids.
gus_massa 2y ago
IANAEE, but I think you are mixing potasium nitrare and ammonium nitrate. Looking in Wikipedia, in the danger warning square, in the yellow part potasium nitrare has a 0 and ammonium nitrate has a 3. Don't try this at home ... Potasium nitrate has a lot of oxygens but nothing to burn with it. So it's only explosive when mixed with some fuel. Ammonium nitrate has the oxygen and also the hidrogens that can be combined and release energy. It has also some spare oxygen, it is probably more dangerous mixed with fuel.

adastra22 2y ago

Ammonium nitrate is explosive by itself. It doesn’t need fuel or oxidizer. By adjusting its pH level the breakdown reaction can be prevented and the compound stabilized, but it decays over time or when improperly stored.

aziaziazi 2y ago
In my humble understanding among I’m nitrate is a oxidizer (or a precursor of it). Am I wrong ? How would it explode without a fuel ?
- adastra22 2y ago
  2NH₄NO₃ (s) → 2N₂ (g) + O₂ (g) + 4H₂O (g) Only happens spontaneously at high temperature/pressure. But of course being an explosive reaction, once it starts in a little pocket of material, all the neighboring material experiences a lot of heat and pressure, and blows up. And then the next layer, and the next layer, etc. If improperly stored, pockets form with different pH values that cause it to spontaneously occur at lower temperatures. Or a spark, or a compressive event in an unstable patch, etc.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
    Or, if the ship is indeed being used as a weapon, a "small" hidden charge of military explosives that will be hard to find after a kiloton-scale explosion.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppau_explosion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppau_explosion suggests that pure AN is also explosive. As far as I know, the explosion that leveled part of Beirut was mostly assumed to be caused by uncontaminated AN too.
  - dist-epoch 2y ago
    It was stored in the same warehouse with fireworks, and in the videos you can see them explode shortly before the big explosion.
    - adastra22 2y ago
      Yes the fire was required to set off the ammonium nitrate. But that’s just to initiate the explosion, and there are many ways it could have been initiated. A single spark would have done the job. But you do not need to mix fuel with the fertilizer to activate it. It provides its own fuel.
      - dist-epoch 2y ago
        My understanding is that uncontaminated ammonium nitrate does not explode when exposed to fire. Fuel contamination is required.
        adastra22 2y ago
        You are confusing with potassium nitrate I think. Ammonium is a fuel, nitrate is an oxidizer. Ammonium nitrate is a perfectly mixed explosive.

aziaziazi 2y ago

Fuel oil… or any combustible basically. A famous combustible to mix with is sugar. Cheap and mis wert well with it, still stable if no heat source. I hardly imagine how an inspector can "look" if there’s any king of combustible hidden in the lower layers of the ship cargo.

londons_explore 2y ago
A sampler on a stick is used, which can be poked down to the bottom to get a sample from the bottom - useful for contaminants which are heavy or liquids.

gus_massa 2y ago

IANAEE, but I think you are mixing potasium nitrare and ammonium nitrate. Looking in Wikipedia, in the danger warning square, in the yellow part potasium nitrare has a 0 and ammonium nitrate has a 3. Don't try this at home ... Potasium nitrate has a lot of oxygens but nothing to burn with it. So it's only explosive when mixed with some fuel. Ammonium nitrate has the oxygen and also the hidrogens that can be combined and release energy. It has also some spare oxygen, it is probably more dangerous mixed with fuel.