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> The study found that just having a first-class section on an airplane quadrupled the chance of an air rage incident and that loading economy passengers throug

> The study found that just having a first-class section on an airplane quadrupled the chance of an air rage incident and that loading economy passengers through first class doubles that again This sounds like a study full of confounding factors that are very difficult to control for, to do with sizes of planes and lengths of flight and different seating configurations of different airlines. And indeed there is a response to the original study questioning the statistical methods: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1611704113 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1611704113 On the wider subject, I’m a frequent flier and also have a few friends who are flight attendants. It’s a difficult job, and not well-paid. Please, every time you fly, imagine yourself in your flight attendants’ shoes, tasked with controlling a large number of grumpy primates packed into a long airtight cylinder for several hours, many of them intoxicated when they board and then expecting you to serve then even more alcohol. A little empathy goes a long way and I’m quite happy to see some draconian penalties for anyone who is physically violent on a flight.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bradleyjg 2y ago
You aren’t wrong about flight attendants but also big companies exploit your empathy. You aren’t ever allowed to see or communicate with anyone other than ill paid employees with no responsibility. This is intended to defuse and disarm your anger and frustration at the company—-whether legitimate or not.
- libraryofbabel 2y ago
  eh, sure, but I don’t think it’s hard to make the distinction in this case. When something egregious happens with a flight, do I bitch at the flight attendants and take out my frustration on them? No. Did I make a huge stink to the airline complaints department afterwards? Yes. I don’t feel my empathy is being exploited here.
stavros 2y ago
I agree with everything you said, I just found myself compelled to point out that the fuselage is not airtight (there are air intakes from outside, the toilet flush uses the pressure differential, etc).
- libraryofbabel 2y ago
  s/airtight/pressurized/g then :)
  - stavros 2y ago
    Thank you :D
    - libraryofbabel 2y ago
      (I originally wrote “metal cylinder” but then thought, waiiiit this is hacker news, someone is going to correct me and give me a mini seminar on composite fuselages.)
      - stavros 2y ago
        At least you dodged that bullet!
- trilbyglens 2y ago
  That you for confirming that I am indeed reading a hacker news thread
_dain_ 2y ago
Yes, also effect sizes of 4x and 8x are just ridiculously huge. I flat-out don't believe it. This study won't replicate.
polotics 2y ago
Regulations say pilots have responsibility and authority over who they accept on the plane, one commercial airliner pilot did tell me he does refuse entry to clearly inebriated passengers. For this of course the pilot has to not be too busy, has to take the time to stand at the door for the whole boarding, and has to have a company that will not veto such (legal) decisions to refuse boarding, with associated luggage removal delay etc, to happen... How much has this changed in the past ten years?
derriz 2y ago
Yes the conclusion sounds like the authors have bent some statistics to support their theory. I fly frequently and have occasionally felt these feelings of anger but NEVER have I started actual boarding in a good mood only for my mood to sour as I get to my seat. The anger has always built up earlier. To be clear, I'm not trying to refute the study by stating this fact. But I am suggesting that there are obvious other explanations for the observation. For example, the existence of a first class section is highly correlated with the size of the airplane. Larger airplane size is associated with significantly more queueing - which are far more likely sources of "ragey" feelings. Especially queues which stop moving or are unfair - for example where you have multiple queues and you get put into a slow/stuck one. I mean who doesn't feel a little surge of irritation, stuck in a queue, when someone is holding up a check-in desk asking a bunch of irrelevant questions. Also larger aircraft (with first class sections) are more likely to be international which usually means passport checks/visa control - thus more queuing.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bradleyjg 2y ago

You aren’t wrong about flight attendants but also big companies exploit your empathy. You aren’t ever allowed to see or communicate with anyone other than ill paid employees with no responsibility. This is intended to defuse and disarm your anger and frustration at the company—-whether legitimate or not.

libraryofbabel 2y ago
eh, sure, but I don’t think it’s hard to make the distinction in this case. When something egregious happens with a flight, do I bitch at the flight attendants and take out my frustration on them? No. Did I make a huge stink to the airline complaints department afterwards? Yes. I don’t feel my empathy is being exploited here.

stavros 2y ago

I agree with everything you said, I just found myself compelled to point out that the fuselage is not airtight (there are air intakes from outside, the toilet flush uses the pressure differential, etc).

libraryofbabel 2y ago
s/airtight/pressurized/g then :)
- stavros 2y ago
  Thank you :D
  - libraryofbabel 2y ago
    (I originally wrote “metal cylinder” but then thought, waiiiit this is hacker news, someone is going to correct me and give me a mini seminar on composite fuselages.)
    - stavros 2y ago
      At least you dodged that bullet!
trilbyglens 2y ago
That you for confirming that I am indeed reading a hacker news thread

_dain_ 2y ago

Yes, also effect sizes of 4x and 8x are just ridiculously huge. I flat-out don't believe it. This study won't replicate.

polotics 2y ago

Regulations say pilots have responsibility and authority over who they accept on the plane, one commercial airliner pilot did tell me he does refuse entry to clearly inebriated passengers. For this of course the pilot has to not be too busy, has to take the time to stand at the door for the whole boarding, and has to have a company that will not veto such (legal) decisions to refuse boarding, with associated luggage removal delay etc, to happen... How much has this changed in the past ten years?

derriz 2y ago

Yes the conclusion sounds like the authors have bent some statistics to support their theory. I fly frequently and have occasionally felt these feelings of anger but NEVER have I started actual boarding in a good mood only for my mood to sour as I get to my seat. The anger has always built up earlier. To be clear, I'm not trying to refute the study by stating this fact. But I am suggesting that there are obvious other explanations for the observation. For example, the existence of a first class section is highly correlated with the size of the airplane. Larger airplane size is associated with significantly more queueing - which are far more likely sources of "ragey" feelings. Especially queues which stop moving or are unfair - for example where you have multiple queues and you get put into a slow/stuck one. I mean who doesn't feel a little surge of irritation, stuck in a queue, when someone is holding up a check-in desk asking a bunch of irrelevant questions. Also larger aircraft (with first class sections) are more likely to be international which usually means passport checks/visa control - thus more queuing.