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> Starliner stranded two astronauts in space. It didn't, because it wasn't simply broken -- it had unexpected behavior. It ended up landing fine. I'm uncomfor

by ethbr1 2y ago

> Starliner stranded two astronauts in space. It didn't, because it wasn't simply broken -- it had unexpected behavior. It ended up landing fine. I'm uncomfortable heaping pejoratives on what we should expect NASA to do: make engineering decisions to minimize risk and maximize chance of mission success. Increasing the reputational or financial penalties to suppliers incentivizes exactly the sort of decisions that blew up Challenger and Columbia.

thfuran 2y ago
>It ended up landing fine. Were the astronauts in it when it landed?
- ethbr1 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41684804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41684804
rdtsc 2y ago
> it wasn't simply broken -- it had unexpected behavior. Unexpected behavior for NASA was broken enough to send it back empty. That was not the plan to start with. The mission was supposed to be a few days only not this long. > what we should expect NASA to do: make engineering decisions to minimize risk and maximize chance of mission success. The criticism is of both NASA and Boeing on what they should have done prior to the trip. How the money was spent and such. I don’t think anyone criticizes NASA for opting to keep the astronauts safe by delaying their return. It’s about what happened before that point.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > Unexpected behavior for NASA was broken enough to send it back empty. It's not a question of broken / not-broken. It's a question of known-risk / unknown-risk. The return mission had too much of the latter. I'm as much of a Boeing skeptic as anyone here, but the knee-jerk-ism to vilify them over this is unreasonable. NASA manages risk. SpaceX blows up rockets, so they can move fast, until they get it right. Boeing is trying to operate as a legacy space company (read: endlessly trying to reduce risk) while also competing with SpaceX. I'm glad they launched Starliner for a crewed mission! No one died, because it was safe enough. No one would have died, had they returned on it, because it was safe enough. And why should NASA have delayed a manned test flight further when there was an acceptable Plan B?
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> it had unexpected behavior. It ended up landing fine By this measure the door blowing off the Alaska Airlines flight wasn’t an emergency.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  If it had been a test flight using test pilots: yes, it wouldn't have been. There's a reason astronauts for higher risk missions tend to be selected from operational and test naval aviation backgrounds, like both of the Starliner CFT astronauts were.

by ethbr1 2y ago

thfuran 2y ago

>It ended up landing fine. Were the astronauts in it when it landed?

ethbr1 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41684804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41684804

rdtsc 2y ago

> it wasn't simply broken -- it had unexpected behavior. Unexpected behavior for NASA was broken enough to send it back empty. That was not the plan to start with. The mission was supposed to be a few days only not this long. > what we should expect NASA to do: make engineering decisions to minimize risk and maximize chance of mission success. The criticism is of both NASA and Boeing on what they should have done prior to the trip. How the money was spent and such. I don’t think anyone criticizes NASA for opting to keep the astronauts safe by delaying their return. It’s about what happened before that point.

ethbr1 2y ago
> Unexpected behavior for NASA was broken enough to send it back empty. It's not a question of broken / not-broken. It's a question of known-risk / unknown-risk. The return mission had too much of the latter. I'm as much of a Boeing skeptic as anyone here, but the knee-jerk-ism to vilify them over this is unreasonable. NASA manages risk. SpaceX blows up rockets, so they can move fast, until they get it right. Boeing is trying to operate as a legacy space company (read: endlessly trying to reduce risk) while also competing with SpaceX. I'm glad they launched Starliner for a crewed mission! No one died, because it was safe enough. No one would have died, had they returned on it, because it was safe enough. And why should NASA have delayed a manned test flight further when there was an acceptable Plan B?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> it had unexpected behavior. It ended up landing fine By this measure the door blowing off the Alaska Airlines flight wasn’t an emergency.

ethbr1 2y ago
If it had been a test flight using test pilots: yes, it wouldn't have been. There's a reason astronauts for higher risk missions tend to be selected from operational and test naval aviation backgrounds, like both of the Starliner CFT astronauts were.