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No? Because if you’re not in danger, you’re not being rescued. You’re just being transported. If I miss the last train across the bay, my uber isn’t rescuing m

No? Because if you’re not in danger, you’re not being rescued. You’re just being transported. If I miss the last train across the bay, my uber isn’t rescuing me. I can always stay up to 5am by making a shady deal at the endup. But yeah, this is a black eye on boeing and definitely something that nobody wants to have to deal with.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> if you’re not in danger, you’re not being rescued. You’re just being transported The ISS isn’t Treasure Island. There is always an elevated degree of peril. Particularly in an emergency condition.
- YeahThisIsMe 2y ago
  But there's no emergency situation at the moment.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > there’s no emergency situation at the moment It’s space. The ground state is emergency. I am training to be a pilot. Anything going off flight plan is an emergency. If ground control gives me corrective instructions, in the course of a mistake, I hope I will have the humility to not refuse its designation as a rescue. Like, if you want an Exhibit A for why Boeing doesn’t deserve forward trust, it’s this response.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      When the ground state is emergency the definition of emergency changes because emergency cannot be the same as ground state... If we go by technical definition of "emergency" then anything not by the plan is an emergency, but it's not used that way normally and it's not a technical publication. If you are stuck in space with no lifeboat back then I agree it is an emergency, but they apparently have Starliner and it works. If they or Nasa are more comfortable with another option maybe that makes it an emergency or maybe not. If it turns out Starliner doesn't work, that's an emergency. If there is radiation event coming then it's an emergency, but it is always an emergency in space regardless.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > they apparently have Starliner and it works One, had. Starliner went home. Two, they didn’t. Starliner was broken. Its manoeuvring thrusters, a critical reëntry system, were misbehaving. If you’re on a plane and the oxygen system fails, that’s an emergency. You don’t have to wait for cabin pressure to fail for it to qualify, and oxygen systems aren’t even a critical system; this is closer to the flaps or landing gear behaving erratically.
        throwaway290 2y ago
        But the oxygen system is fine, right? Let me check the article again If it fails then that's an emergency, but that regardless of the presence of the boat. Noted the absence of Starliner, but not 100% convinced personally
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    Actually, NASA protocol requires more than a single layer of safety. The astronauts currently do not have a lifeboat home - that is extraordinarily irregular and I believe that it constitutes a danger to the astronauts. The spacecraft are not only for down transport, they are also shelters for radiation and particle events - which could be declared with days or hours notice. For a month these astronauts have had no viable shelter nor transport in case of emergency. Danger is not when the last later of safety fails. Danger is when the level of risk exceeds a set threshold - and that level has been exceeded as per NASA protocol.
- kedv 2y ago
  These individuals are professionals who signed up for this and are paid to do the job. This isn’t a rescue; the media is simply sensationalizing the entire story.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > individuals are professionals who signed up for this and are paid to do the job Is the thesis only leisure travellers can be rescued? Astronauts do not sign up to fly on faulty ships. They accept the risk of it happening. But that acceptance doesn’t diminish the tragedy of a ship breaking up on reëntry nor, by extension, the emergency status of a reëntry vehicle with misbehaving manoeuvring thrusters. This discussion reminds me of the reaction among some to the FAA grounding Falcon 9 “after the first stage used in the [August] launch crash-landed and toppled into the Atlantic Ocean while attempting to touch down on a SpaceX droneship” [1]. It doesn’t matter that everyone else tosses their spent stages into the sea. There was a plan and it went abnormally. That calls for a review. If that review can’t be concluded satisfactorily, as it wasn’t in the case of Starliner, you have an emergency. Relieving someone from an emergency is a rescue. By some of the standards raised in this thread, a test pilot ejected from their plane and stranded in the tundra wouldn’t qualify for rescue because they were paid or weren’t in immediate and obvious mortal peril or because the ejection seat worked. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-falcon-9-grounded-faa-crash-landing/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-falcon-9-grounded-faa-cr...
aylmao 2y ago
Looked up two definitions of rescue. First, is the default that shows on Google (via Oxford Languages) [1]: > verb. 1. save (someone) from a dangerous or distressing situation. 2. informal, keep from being lost or abandoned; retrieve. Per this one, if you miss the last train across the bay the the Uber _would_ indeed be "rescuing" you if you felt distressed. If we consider the informal definition, I'd say you're also being rescued since one could say you were abandoned by the train and thus being retrieved by the Uber. Next, Merriam Webster [2]: > transitive verb. to free from confinement, danger, or evil Similarly, if you understand "rescue" as freeing someone from danger, this isn't a rescue. The astronauts aren't in danger really— they have all the supplies and support they need. Nonetheless, they certainly are in confinement, so this could still be called a rescue. I personally do see how the fact this mission was already scheduled, and the little danger around all this, can make "rescue" feel like a little much. It's the same word used in The Martian, after all. But nonetheless I would still call it a rescue mission. These two astronauts are confined up there not by will but by circumstance, and the taxi flight was modified to sending only two people instead of the usual four, specifically to make space for these two astronauts to come back [3]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=rescue%20meaning https://www.google.com/search?q=rescue%20meaning [2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescue https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescue [3] https://apnews.com/article/boeing-spacex-nasa-astronauts-starliner-e4e81e5a6c23dee2f8f72260ddea011c https://apnews.com/article/boeing-spacex-nasa-astronauts-sta...
nick3443 2y ago
If you stay until 5am at the endup, you'll probably have to get rescued anyway.
WheatMillington 2y ago
How is being stranded in space "not in danger"?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> if you’re not in danger, you’re not being rescued. You’re just being transported The ISS isn’t Treasure Island. There is always an elevated degree of peril. Particularly in an emergency condition.

YeahThisIsMe 2y ago
But there's no emergency situation at the moment.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > there’s no emergency situation at the moment It’s space. The ground state is emergency. I am training to be a pilot. Anything going off flight plan is an emergency. If ground control gives me corrective instructions, in the course of a mistake, I hope I will have the humility to not refuse its designation as a rescue. Like, if you want an Exhibit A for why Boeing doesn’t deserve forward trust, it’s this response.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    When the ground state is emergency the definition of emergency changes because emergency cannot be the same as ground state... If we go by technical definition of "emergency" then anything not by the plan is an emergency, but it's not used that way normally and it's not a technical publication. If you are stuck in space with no lifeboat back then I agree it is an emergency, but they apparently have Starliner and it works. If they or Nasa are more comfortable with another option maybe that makes it an emergency or maybe not. If it turns out Starliner doesn't work, that's an emergency. If there is radiation event coming then it's an emergency, but it is always an emergency in space regardless.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > they apparently have Starliner and it works One, had. Starliner went home. Two, they didn’t. Starliner was broken. Its manoeuvring thrusters, a critical reëntry system, were misbehaving. If you’re on a plane and the oxygen system fails, that’s an emergency. You don’t have to wait for cabin pressure to fail for it to qualify, and oxygen systems aren’t even a critical system; this is closer to the flaps or landing gear behaving erratically.
      - throwaway290 2y ago
        But the oxygen system is fine, right? Let me check the article again If it fails then that's an emergency, but that regardless of the presence of the boat. Noted the absence of Starliner, but not 100% convinced personally
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Actually, NASA protocol requires more than a single layer of safety. The astronauts currently do not have a lifeboat home - that is extraordinarily irregular and I believe that it constitutes a danger to the astronauts. The spacecraft are not only for down transport, they are also shelters for radiation and particle events - which could be declared with days or hours notice. For a month these astronauts have had no viable shelter nor transport in case of emergency. Danger is not when the last later of safety fails. Danger is when the level of risk exceeds a set threshold - and that level has been exceeded as per NASA protocol.
kedv 2y ago
These individuals are professionals who signed up for this and are paid to do the job. This isn’t a rescue; the media is simply sensationalizing the entire story.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > individuals are professionals who signed up for this and are paid to do the job Is the thesis only leisure travellers can be rescued? Astronauts do not sign up to fly on faulty ships. They accept the risk of it happening. But that acceptance doesn’t diminish the tragedy of a ship breaking up on reëntry nor, by extension, the emergency status of a reëntry vehicle with misbehaving manoeuvring thrusters. This discussion reminds me of the reaction among some to the FAA grounding Falcon 9 “after the first stage used in the [August] launch crash-landed and toppled into the Atlantic Ocean while attempting to touch down on a SpaceX droneship” [1]. It doesn’t matter that everyone else tosses their spent stages into the sea. There was a plan and it went abnormally. That calls for a review. If that review can’t be concluded satisfactorily, as it wasn’t in the case of Starliner, you have an emergency. Relieving someone from an emergency is a rescue. By some of the standards raised in this thread, a test pilot ejected from their plane and stranded in the tundra wouldn’t qualify for rescue because they were paid or weren’t in immediate and obvious mortal peril or because the ejection seat worked. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-falcon-9-grounded-faa-crash-landing/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-falcon-9-grounded-faa-cr...

aylmao 2y ago

Looked up two definitions of rescue. First, is the default that shows on Google (via Oxford Languages) [1]: > verb. 1. save (someone) from a dangerous or distressing situation. 2. informal, keep from being lost or abandoned; retrieve. Per this one, if you miss the last train across the bay the the Uber _would_ indeed be "rescuing" you if you felt distressed. If we consider the informal definition, I'd say you're also being rescued since one could say you were abandoned by the train and thus being retrieved by the Uber. Next, Merriam Webster [2]: > transitive verb. to free from confinement, danger, or evil Similarly, if you understand "rescue" as freeing someone from danger, this isn't a rescue. The astronauts aren't in danger really— they have all the supplies and support they need. Nonetheless, they certainly are in confinement, so this could still be called a rescue. I personally do see how the fact this mission was already scheduled, and the little danger around all this, can make "rescue" feel like a little much. It's the same word used in The Martian, after all. But nonetheless I would still call it a rescue mission. These two astronauts are confined up there not by will but by circumstance, and the taxi flight was modified to sending only two people instead of the usual four, specifically to make space for these two astronauts to come back [3]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=rescue%20meaning https://www.google.com/search?q=rescue%20meaning [2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescue https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescue [3] https://apnews.com/article/boeing-spacex-nasa-astronauts-starliner-e4e81e5a6c23dee2f8f72260ddea011c https://apnews.com/article/boeing-spacex-nasa-astronauts-sta...

nick3443 2y ago

If you stay until 5am at the endup, you'll probably have to get rescued anyway.

WheatMillington 2y ago

How is being stranded in space "not in danger"?