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The top five countries in the world by population are China, India, United States, Indonesia, and Pakistan. As mega-population superpower/rising-power type coun

The top five countries in the world by population are China, India, United States, Indonesia, and Pakistan. As mega-population superpower/rising-power type countries go, the United states is it for the embrace of immigration. Our anti-immigration lobby is loud and politicized, but there are smart people doing policy behind the scenes no matter which bunch of belligerent blowhards are in office in a given year. We should be even more welcoming of immigration than we are, and we should clean up our act on e.g. the southern border and the humanitarian crisis that's completely avoidable there. We don't have this right yet. But when it comes down to it in realpolitik terms, populous nations are strong nations both today, and especially in 20-40 years when powers like the PRC are going to be faltering badly because of demographic collapse and we're still going strong because new blood kept the country young and vibrant.

deleted 2y ago
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rayiner 2y ago
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- benreesman 2y ago
  If there’s been a straight up or down referendum by the public on sweeping limits to immigration greater than already exist, I’m unaware of it. This could be my ignorance, in which case I’d thank you for educating me via citation. And while it’s a rare tier-one politician these days that hasn’t merited the word “traitor” by selling their actual as opposed to ostensible policy to monied influence, I’m likewise unaware of any split there along lines of ostensible immigration policy proposal. I’ll likewise thank you for any correction of my ignorance there.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    Increasing immigration has never polled higher than 25% since 1965: https://news.gallup.com/poll/647123/sharply-americans-curb-immigration.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/647123/sharply-americans-curb-i.... But because republicans want cheap labor, we have gone from 5% foreign born population to 15% over that timeframe. Cato published a survey in 2021 finding that the overwhelming majority of Americans want a low level of immigration: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/aside_mobile_3x/public/2021-04/4_Chart.jpg?itok=IxZhUMXo https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/aside_mobil.... If you poll people, the median ends up being under 500,000 people per year. Which is about 1/5th of what it’s been annually under Biden.
    - benreesman 2y ago
      Your first link is to a poll indicating a year-over-year spike that has by simple procedural timing not yet been subjected to public opinion in light of an important vote of any kind. Time will tell on that. Your second link is a liberal education in how partisan think tanks cook surveys to push their agenda. The Cato Institute is the de facto PR arm of Koch Industries and you insult the HN readership by even serving that at our table. Your third assertion would be interesting if substantiated and contextualized: where do I get robust information about the Biden administration breaking with previous administrations on defying the public consensus by a factor of 5? Or were net inflows substantially the same under the last three administrations hailing from both major parties? You’ve been around here a long time, and you’re clearly a very smart person, and I have a lot of respect for both. But I’ve been around longer, and I’ll kindly but firmly remind you to leave the partisan pamphleteering on the whole rest of the Internet.
      - rayiner 2y ago
        The first link is a poll that’s been taken regularly since 1965. That poll shows that support for increasing immigration has never exceeded 25% since 1965. But since 1965 we have pursued a policy of increasing immigration. Cato is a libertarian think thank that supports open borders so the Koch brothers can have cheap labor. My point is that even their survey shows that most Americans want a low level of immigration, half that of the current levels. They spin the headlines to point to the fact that few people want to cut immigration to zero, but the data still shows that people’s ideal immigration level is under 500,000 or so annually.

deleted 2y ago

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rayiner 2y ago

[flagged]

benreesman 2y ago
If there’s been a straight up or down referendum by the public on sweeping limits to immigration greater than already exist, I’m unaware of it. This could be my ignorance, in which case I’d thank you for educating me via citation. And while it’s a rare tier-one politician these days that hasn’t merited the word “traitor” by selling their actual as opposed to ostensible policy to monied influence, I’m likewise unaware of any split there along lines of ostensible immigration policy proposal. I’ll likewise thank you for any correction of my ignorance there.
- rayiner 2y ago
  Increasing immigration has never polled higher than 25% since 1965: https://news.gallup.com/poll/647123/sharply-americans-curb-immigration.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/647123/sharply-americans-curb-i.... But because republicans want cheap labor, we have gone from 5% foreign born population to 15% over that timeframe. Cato published a survey in 2021 finding that the overwhelming majority of Americans want a low level of immigration: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/aside_mobile_3x/public/2021-04/4_Chart.jpg?itok=IxZhUMXo https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/styles/aside_mobil.... If you poll people, the median ends up being under 500,000 people per year. Which is about 1/5th of what it’s been annually under Biden.
  - benreesman 2y ago
    Your first link is to a poll indicating a year-over-year spike that has by simple procedural timing not yet been subjected to public opinion in light of an important vote of any kind. Time will tell on that. Your second link is a liberal education in how partisan think tanks cook surveys to push their agenda. The Cato Institute is the de facto PR arm of Koch Industries and you insult the HN readership by even serving that at our table. Your third assertion would be interesting if substantiated and contextualized: where do I get robust information about the Biden administration breaking with previous administrations on defying the public consensus by a factor of 5? Or were net inflows substantially the same under the last three administrations hailing from both major parties? You’ve been around here a long time, and you’re clearly a very smart person, and I have a lot of respect for both. But I’ve been around longer, and I’ll kindly but firmly remind you to leave the partisan pamphleteering on the whole rest of the Internet.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      The first link is a poll that’s been taken regularly since 1965. That poll shows that support for increasing immigration has never exceeded 25% since 1965. But since 1965 we have pursued a policy of increasing immigration. Cato is a libertarian think thank that supports open borders so the Koch brothers can have cheap labor. My point is that even their survey shows that most Americans want a low level of immigration, half that of the current levels. They spin the headlines to point to the fact that few people want to cut immigration to zero, but the data still shows that people’s ideal immigration level is under 500,000 or so annually.