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Apple stopped sales of these models over seven years ago. It’s hard to be mad at them for ending support.

by _mlbt 2y ago

metadat 2y ago
Even when there is nothing wrong with the still-perfectly-capable machines? Capitalism offers strong incentives to force these functional and well-built computers into landfills.
- _mlbt 2y ago
  Why should Apple be obligated to support these machines indefinitely? I think a 7 year lifespan for a computer is actually pretty decent from the original manufacturer. Much better than the most of the competition. Additionally these machines do not cease to work once Apple declares them obsolete and there is nothing stopping someone from installing Linux on them and continuing to use them with a supported operating system that way.
  - metadat 2y ago
    What obligations does Apple have after designing, manufacturing, distributing, and wildly profiting from what they are now arbitrarily classifying as e-waste? Currently Apple is reaping all the financial rewards and taking responsibility for very few of the externalities. Does this mean it's what's best? It might seem like a stretch today, but in the medium to long-term, true sustainability is important. Apple could at least (1) not cripple the devices software and (2) coordinate with a generic manufacturer or supplier to provide replacement parts and competent service and/or updates. Apple could surely dig around the couch for some spare change and locate the resources to make this happen.
    - dsv3099i 2y ago
      Putting aside whatever "true sustainability" means, it's unlikely that it's a money thing. It's probably more related to the efficiency of individuals in organizations as they grow, and Apple is already quite large.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        It is absolutely a money thing. If Apple didn't have to worry about the commercialization of MacOS, then they could publish the driver code so Windows and Linux clients could offer support theoretically "forever". They do not publish the drivers though, which means groups like Asahi have to waste their life-hours reverse-engineering for sustainability purposes.
  - electronbeam 2y ago
    Its like asking how long a car can last. Apple makes it difficult to continue using them
    - _mlbt 2y ago
      We're not talking about cars, we're talking about computers. What computer manufacturer provides Apple's level of support for 7 year old hardware? Apple just has the decency to communicate what hardware it considers to be officially obsolete.
      - metadat 2y ago
        The relevant difference between cars and computers in this case is what, exactly? They are both high-tech, require a lot of resources to manufacture, and can remain useful over a long period of time.
        _mlbt 2y ago
        They are dramatically different industries. Let me reiterate, what computer manufacturer provides Apple’s level of support for more than 7 years?
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Plenty, when you pay enterprise support contracts, but Apple doesn't do enterprise actually.
        joshstrange 2y ago
        Please provide some examples, because the few programs I’ve found (enterprise-level and not cheap, example: Dell ProSupport Plus) all end at a max of 5 years after purchase date.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        That would be breaking NDAs.
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    The problem is that Apple doesn't open-source their drivers and firmware, so those things won't get security updates even if you're using a third-party OS that otherwise does. If I were in charge, companies would be obligated to keep providing security updates for all hardware they sold until they either did open-source everything, or provided full refunds to everyone who ever bought one.
- dsv3099i 2y ago
  Obsolete doesn't mean that the computer needs to be thrown away immediately. It means that Apple will no long allocate a portion of its finite software resources towards this machine. Also, keep in mind that even if Apple did continue to invest software resources into the older machine, the application vendors probably wouldn't as it costs them money too. And applications can have security holes and breakages just like everything else.
musicale 2y ago
I realize Apple makes its money from hardware sales and that testing new software on old hardware is expensive, but I would love to see Apple commit to ten years of security updates for every Mac, to bring the software lifespan more in line with the hardware.
arp242 2y ago
Good thing the author isn't "mad at them for ending support" then. The complaint is over the usage of "obsolete", not that they are ending support. A second related complaint is that Apple makes it hard to refurbish the hardware.
curmux 2y ago
2019 MacBook Airs are not supported by Sequoia

Apple stopped sales of these models over seven years ago. It’s hard to be mad at them for ending support.

by _mlbt 2y ago

Apple stopped sales of these models over seven years ago. It’s hard to be mad at them for ending support.

Even when there is nothing wrong with the still-perfectly-capable machines? Capitalism offers strong incentives to force these functional and well-built computers into landfills.

_mlbt 2y ago
Why should Apple be obligated to support these machines indefinitely? I think a 7 year lifespan for a computer is actually pretty decent from the original manufacturer. Much better than the most of the competition. Additionally these machines do not cease to work once Apple declares them obsolete and there is nothing stopping someone from installing Linux on them and continuing to use them with a supported operating system that way.
- metadat 2y ago
  What obligations does Apple have after designing, manufacturing, distributing, and wildly profiting from what they are now arbitrarily classifying as e-waste? Currently Apple is reaping all the financial rewards and taking responsibility for very few of the externalities. Does this mean it's what's best? It might seem like a stretch today, but in the medium to long-term, true sustainability is important. Apple could at least (1) not cripple the devices software and (2) coordinate with a generic manufacturer or supplier to provide replacement parts and competent service and/or updates. Apple could surely dig around the couch for some spare change and locate the resources to make this happen.
  - dsv3099i 2y ago
    Putting aside whatever "true sustainability" means, it's unlikely that it's a money thing. It's probably more related to the efficiency of individuals in organizations as they grow, and Apple is already quite large.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      It is absolutely a money thing. If Apple didn't have to worry about the commercialization of MacOS, then they could publish the driver code so Windows and Linux clients could offer support theoretically "forever". They do not publish the drivers though, which means groups like Asahi have to waste their life-hours reverse-engineering for sustainability purposes.
- electronbeam 2y ago
  Its like asking how long a car can last. Apple makes it difficult to continue using them
  - _mlbt 2y ago
    We're not talking about cars, we're talking about computers. What computer manufacturer provides Apple's level of support for 7 year old hardware? Apple just has the decency to communicate what hardware it considers to be officially obsolete.
    - metadat 2y ago
      The relevant difference between cars and computers in this case is what, exactly? They are both high-tech, require a lot of resources to manufacture, and can remain useful over a long period of time.
      - _mlbt 2y ago
        They are dramatically different industries. Let me reiterate, what computer manufacturer provides Apple’s level of support for more than 7 years?
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Plenty, when you pay enterprise support contracts, but Apple doesn't do enterprise actually.
        joshstrange 2y ago
        Please provide some examples, because the few programs I’ve found (enterprise-level and not cheap, example: Dell ProSupport Plus) all end at a max of 5 years after purchase date.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        That would be breaking NDAs.
- josephcsible 2y ago
  The problem is that Apple doesn't open-source their drivers and firmware, so those things won't get security updates even if you're using a third-party OS that otherwise does. If I were in charge, companies would be obligated to keep providing security updates for all hardware they sold until they either did open-source everything, or provided full refunds to everyone who ever bought one.
dsv3099i 2y ago
Obsolete doesn't mean that the computer needs to be thrown away immediately. It means that Apple will no long allocate a portion of its finite software resources towards this machine. Also, keep in mind that even if Apple did continue to invest software resources into the older machine, the application vendors probably wouldn't as it costs them money too. And applications can have security holes and breakages just like everything else.

musicale 2y ago

I realize Apple makes its money from hardware sales and that testing new software on old hardware is expensive, but I would love to see Apple commit to ten years of security updates for every Mac, to bring the software lifespan more in line with the hardware.

arp242 2y ago

Good thing the author isn't "mad at them for ending support" then. The complaint is over the usage of "obsolete", not that they are ending support. A second related complaint is that Apple makes it hard to refurbish the hardware.

curmux 2y ago

2019 MacBook Airs are not supported by Sequoia