3 ms·

No, what rini17 pointed out is a problem here, and I think my previous comments that setting ROOT might be "part of a solution" are less accurate (as it seems `

by codys 2y ago

No, what rini17 pointed out is a problem here, and I think my previous comments that setting ROOT might be "part of a solution" are less accurate (as it seems `ROOT` is even less of a complete solution here). Lets consider this hypothetical representation of the 64-bit time issue: In `ROOT=/`, we have a `libA.so` with 32-bit time_t, and a `libB.so` with 32-bit time_t that depends on `libA` (ie: `libB.so` -> `libA.so`). We rebuild package `A` with a special root (`ROOT=/tmp/new`) which has 64-bit time_t. We now have a `/tmp/new` with `libA.so` built for 64-bit time_t. We now want to build `B` for `ROOT=/tmp/new` with 64-bit time_t and have it link against the new `/tmp/new/lib/libA.so`. But setting `ROOT=/tmp/new` doesn't cause us to use the `/tmp/new` to as our source to link against things. So (as it currently stands) we'll end up trying to link `libB.so` (64-bit time_t) against `/lib/libA.so` (32-bit time_t), and things just won't work. If gentoo changes/extends ROOT (or adds something else like ROOT but used to locate dependencies for linking), then it could be a piece of a solution. But it sounds like it's pretty far from that in intention/practice right now.

aaronmdjones 2y ago
> But setting `ROOT=/tmp/new` doesn't cause us to use the `/tmp/new` to as our source to link against things That's a good thing, because it won't be /tmp/new/ when we're finished. > So (as it currently stands) we'll end up trying to link `libB.so` (64-bit time_t) against `/lib/libA.so` (32-bit time_t), and things just won't work. It won't work until /tmp/new/ becomes /, which it doesn't have to until you're done. Remember that this is just for building and installing the software. It doesn't get executed which is precisely what you want because it wouldn't work properly otherwise, as you point out. You can even use this method to build a complete userland for an instruction set architecture that your CPU doesn't even support. All you need do is also set CHOST to the tuple identifying the target architecture in addition to setting ROOT for where it should be installed [1]. You just wouldn't be able to chroot into it obviously. [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Embedded_Handbook/General/Introduction#Environment_variables https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Embedded_Handbook/General/Intro...
- codys 2y ago
  Before getting into the details here about why we need to read `libA.so` at build time: Perhaps the documentation gentoo provides about `ROOT` that was noted by rini17 is incorrect/misleading and `ROOT` is used as the source of build time dependencies automatically and the documentation was intended for ebuild writers and not emerge users? (in which case, Gentoo should fix/clarify it). "link" has 2 meanings: 1. As you've pointed at, at runtime we have linking occur that reads files. 2. Additionally, building software with `gcc`/etc, we tell it what libraries it needs to link against (`-lA`). When we do that, `gcc` as part of the build process searches for `libA.so` (in various locations dependent on its configuration and arguments), reads the `libA.so` file, and uses that info to determine what to emit in the object file that `gcc` is building. So we need to read a shared library. The same is true for headers used at build time. How much this actually ends up mattering varies depending on architectural details, and whether libraries have different symbols exposed (or generate different header files) depending on what the bit-width of time_t is. It may well be that for most packages we could have the build-time linking occur against a 32-bit time_t object as long as runtime linking is done to the 64-bit time_t object (assuming one is using identical package versions or at least versions with a compatible ABI).
  - aaronmdjones 2y ago
    > and whether libraries have different symbols exposed (or generate different header files) depending on what the bit-width of time_t is Hmm. You have a good point there; I hadn't thought about that... Perhaps they can take an existing stage3 with 32-bit time_t, build a new stage1 through 3 with a 64-bit time_t, and compare the symbols and header files between them to identify any potential trouble spots. This would help them regardless of what migration course of action they decide upon. Any software people have installed that isn't included in the stage3 (e.g. desktop window managers and everything else on top) wouldn't be included here and so is a potential pain point, but everything in @system would be, so at that point you can just rebuild @world again to fix everything.

by codys 2y ago

aaronmdjones 2y ago

> But setting `ROOT=/tmp/new` doesn't cause us to use the `/tmp/new` to as our source to link against things That's a good thing, because it won't be /tmp/new/ when we're finished. > So (as it currently stands) we'll end up trying to link `libB.so` (64-bit time_t) against `/lib/libA.so` (32-bit time_t), and things just won't work. It won't work until /tmp/new/ becomes /, which it doesn't have to until you're done. Remember that this is just for building and installing the software. It doesn't get executed which is precisely what you want because it wouldn't work properly otherwise, as you point out. You can even use this method to build a complete userland for an instruction set architecture that your CPU doesn't even support. All you need do is also set CHOST to the tuple identifying the target architecture in addition to setting ROOT for where it should be installed [1]. You just wouldn't be able to chroot into it obviously. [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Embedded_Handbook/General/Introduction#Environment_variables https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Embedded_Handbook/General/Intro...

codys 2y ago
Before getting into the details here about why we need to read `libA.so` at build time: Perhaps the documentation gentoo provides about `ROOT` that was noted by rini17 is incorrect/misleading and `ROOT` is used as the source of build time dependencies automatically and the documentation was intended for ebuild writers and not emerge users? (in which case, Gentoo should fix/clarify it). "link" has 2 meanings: 1. As you've pointed at, at runtime we have linking occur that reads files. 2. Additionally, building software with `gcc`/etc, we tell it what libraries it needs to link against (`-lA`). When we do that, `gcc` as part of the build process searches for `libA.so` (in various locations dependent on its configuration and arguments), reads the `libA.so` file, and uses that info to determine what to emit in the object file that `gcc` is building. So we need to read a shared library. The same is true for headers used at build time. How much this actually ends up mattering varies depending on architectural details, and whether libraries have different symbols exposed (or generate different header files) depending on what the bit-width of time_t is. It may well be that for most packages we could have the build-time linking occur against a 32-bit time_t object as long as runtime linking is done to the 64-bit time_t object (assuming one is using identical package versions or at least versions with a compatible ABI).
- aaronmdjones 2y ago
  > and whether libraries have different symbols exposed (or generate different header files) depending on what the bit-width of time_t is Hmm. You have a good point there; I hadn't thought about that... Perhaps they can take an existing stage3 with 32-bit time_t, build a new stage1 through 3 with a 64-bit time_t, and compare the symbols and header files between them to identify any potential trouble spots. This would help them regardless of what migration course of action they decide upon. Any software people have installed that isn't included in the stage3 (e.g. desktop window managers and everything else on top) wouldn't be included here and so is a potential pain point, but everything in @system would be, so at that point you can just rebuild @world again to fix everything.