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The goal of a website like this isn't to get a job. I don't like being ghosted and if companies stop ghosting, that would be great. That's it. For me, personal

The goal of a website like this isn't to get a job. I don't like being ghosted and if companies stop ghosting, that would be great. That's it. For me, personally, part of the value a site like this comes from knowing how much time to invest into an application. I currently put a lot of time into my applications. I write cover letters. I'll do pre-interview assignments they ask of candidates. It would be nice to know how serious a company is about hiring before I spend my time with someone who has no interest in hiring me. That would be nice. > The site has the obvious problem that only “ghosting” reports get counted, but not successful interactions. I do think this is a really good point. Right now, just reporting on the number of bad interactions will bias against companies with a lot of interactions. > With so many people applying for jobs, and using bots and AI to do that, and then using employers for practice interviews, it seems inevitable that employers will put less effort into follow-up. This is just stupid. It's your job. Do your job. Ghosting people is indecent. Just because _some_ applicants are awful people isn't a free pass to be indecent to every applicant. Do better.

gregjor 2y ago
I think you misunderstand the screening to hiring pipeline. Companies have automated the process for their efficiency. When they get hundreds or thousands of applicants for every job they don’t need to bother acknowledging every applicant. To make it worse people frequently find job postings through aggregators such as LinkedIn, or the many sites that scrape other sites. Job postings don’t get updated in real-time so you have to expect you will often see stale job postings — filled or closed already but still cached across the internet. Since job boards look better if they have lots of listings you can guess how diligently they curate. I think taking “ghosting” personally and reading some kind of ethical breach into it wastes time and energy. If you submit applications online — perhaps the least effective job hunting strategy — you should expect a low hit rate, similar to sending bulk email. Use a better job hunting strategy rather than getting upset about the automated pipeline you feed. I keep my own stress and frustration down by accepting that things work the way they work, not the way I think they should work. Interpreting impersonal annoyances such as ghosting as “indecent” or something to get upset about will just drain me without changing the reality.
- voidnap 2y ago
  My problem isn't that I am applying through aggregators with old content. I've seen one case of that in recent memory. Most jobs I apply to are listed on the company's website. And most of the jobs I've found on aggregators either take you to the company website or have an identical posting on the company website that you can find with a google search. Its often quite easy to determine if a job is still accepting applications. Thats a very basic thing. I mean, you could say that just because a job is up on a company's website, it doesn't mean they are hiring for it, so you shouldn't expect a response and being ghosted is reasonable. And given your last paragraph that would not surprise me. But then why are you here in this thread? This tool isn't for you. If you aren't interested in trying to make things better then you sound like a doofus walking into a thread pointing out obvious grievances we share, contradicting the idea of doing anything about it, and encouraging everyone to join in your apathy.
  - gregjor 2y ago
    > But then why are you here in this thread? Because presumably most of the people who might look at the site, or read this thread, do so because they want to get a job and have run into ghosting. If they want to "do something about it," great, I think they will waste their time and energy getting distracted from finding a job. Instead of getting hurt and angry about companies ghosting candidates, or posting jobs they don't intend to fill -- unfortunate realities that almost certainly won't change because of yet another web site calling them out -- I propose a different path. Stop taking these irritations personally. Adopt a better strategy for job hunting than sending in piles of applications and waiting to hear back. Applying to lots of jobs online like everyone else turns the process into a lazy, passive, and ultimately frustrating exercise. A numbers game where both sides race to the bottom with automation, while unreasonably expecting human interaction, or at least a simulation of it. Until you get an interview and an offer you didn't get the job, no reason to sit around fuming because you didn't get an email telling you that. I'll point out that corporate bureaucracy means a company doesn't do anything. Maybe one person or a department failed to reply, in an organization that might otherwise offer great opportunities and work environment. Job hunters need to get past and around the HR/recruitment bureaucracy and automation, not tilt and windmills trying to change it. Who do you think will find a job first? The person who concentrates on identifying possible employers, cultivating contacts and referrals, and getting their CV in front of the hiring manager? Or the person scrolling through LinkedIn, waiting, then angrily posting their "I got ghosted" story? Which kind of personality of those two do you think makes for a more appealing candidate? > ... encouraging everyone to join in your apathy. Apathy means a lack of concern or interest. Apathy describes the HN readers who didn't click through on this thread, or look at the site, or bother to comment. I have no interest in which companies ghosted some candidates for whatever unknowable reason. I have more interest in people finding jobs, and have posted quite a bit about that already. We all have to choose what we devote our time and energy to. I suggest focusing on the positive goal of finding a job rather than on the negative (and almost certainly futile) goal of shaming companies that I know currently get swamped with thousands of applications for every job posting. None of us can control what employers post, or how they screen, interview, and maintain their job postings, or whether they reply or ghost candidates. We can control our own reactions and our approach to finding a job.

gregjor 2y ago

I think you misunderstand the screening to hiring pipeline. Companies have automated the process for their efficiency. When they get hundreds or thousands of applicants for every job they don’t need to bother acknowledging every applicant. To make it worse people frequently find job postings through aggregators such as LinkedIn, or the many sites that scrape other sites. Job postings don’t get updated in real-time so you have to expect you will often see stale job postings — filled or closed already but still cached across the internet. Since job boards look better if they have lots of listings you can guess how diligently they curate. I think taking “ghosting” personally and reading some kind of ethical breach into it wastes time and energy. If you submit applications online — perhaps the least effective job hunting strategy — you should expect a low hit rate, similar to sending bulk email. Use a better job hunting strategy rather than getting upset about the automated pipeline you feed. I keep my own stress and frustration down by accepting that things work the way they work, not the way I think they should work. Interpreting impersonal annoyances such as ghosting as “indecent” or something to get upset about will just drain me without changing the reality.

voidnap 2y ago
My problem isn't that I am applying through aggregators with old content. I've seen one case of that in recent memory. Most jobs I apply to are listed on the company's website. And most of the jobs I've found on aggregators either take you to the company website or have an identical posting on the company website that you can find with a google search. Its often quite easy to determine if a job is still accepting applications. Thats a very basic thing. I mean, you could say that just because a job is up on a company's website, it doesn't mean they are hiring for it, so you shouldn't expect a response and being ghosted is reasonable. And given your last paragraph that would not surprise me. But then why are you here in this thread? This tool isn't for you. If you aren't interested in trying to make things better then you sound like a doofus walking into a thread pointing out obvious grievances we share, contradicting the idea of doing anything about it, and encouraging everyone to join in your apathy.
- gregjor 2y ago
  > But then why are you here in this thread? Because presumably most of the people who might look at the site, or read this thread, do so because they want to get a job and have run into ghosting. If they want to "do something about it," great, I think they will waste their time and energy getting distracted from finding a job. Instead of getting hurt and angry about companies ghosting candidates, or posting jobs they don't intend to fill -- unfortunate realities that almost certainly won't change because of yet another web site calling them out -- I propose a different path. Stop taking these irritations personally. Adopt a better strategy for job hunting than sending in piles of applications and waiting to hear back. Applying to lots of jobs online like everyone else turns the process into a lazy, passive, and ultimately frustrating exercise. A numbers game where both sides race to the bottom with automation, while unreasonably expecting human interaction, or at least a simulation of it. Until you get an interview and an offer you didn't get the job, no reason to sit around fuming because you didn't get an email telling you that. I'll point out that corporate bureaucracy means a company doesn't do anything. Maybe one person or a department failed to reply, in an organization that might otherwise offer great opportunities and work environment. Job hunters need to get past and around the HR/recruitment bureaucracy and automation, not tilt and windmills trying to change it. Who do you think will find a job first? The person who concentrates on identifying possible employers, cultivating contacts and referrals, and getting their CV in front of the hiring manager? Or the person scrolling through LinkedIn, waiting, then angrily posting their "I got ghosted" story? Which kind of personality of those two do you think makes for a more appealing candidate? > ... encouraging everyone to join in your apathy. Apathy means a lack of concern or interest. Apathy describes the HN readers who didn't click through on this thread, or look at the site, or bother to comment. I have no interest in which companies ghosted some candidates for whatever unknowable reason. I have more interest in people finding jobs, and have posted quite a bit about that already. We all have to choose what we devote our time and energy to. I suggest focusing on the positive goal of finding a job rather than on the negative (and almost certainly futile) goal of shaming companies that I know currently get swamped with thousands of applications for every job posting. None of us can control what employers post, or how they screen, interview, and maintain their job postings, or whether they reply or ghost candidates. We can control our own reactions and our approach to finding a job.