4 ms·

User perceptions play into performance more than you'd think. If the HTML app can't scroll or transition smoothly, or it's spinning up new WebViews and you have

User perceptions play into performance more than you'd think. If the HTML app can't scroll or transition smoothly, or it's spinning up new WebViews and you have to wait (there is an inherent delay in loading any content in a new UIWebView), then users will say it's slow. Not to mention memory usage of HTML elements, and managing that whole mess (the "rococo pandemonium" of HTML CSS and JavaScript, as Tim Bray put it) of objects in (usually) one giant container... I've never found a situation where a WebView-based app is better than native.

marknutter 14y ago
Download LinkedIn's iPad app. It's a situation where a WebView-based app is as good as native.
- devinfoley 14y ago
  Sorry, but I'd disagree. The transitions aren't very smooth and often times you're faced with a blank screen while waiting for assets to load. I was actually very hopeful that the app would feel as good as native after I'd read about it, but I was disappointed.
  - marknutter 14y ago
    It may have to do with the hardware. On my iPad 3 it feels exactly as good as native.
    - flatline3 14y ago
      That hasn't been my experience. "It's as good as native" seems more driven from hope than reality, or more generously, ignorance of the differences that would stick out like a sore thumb to someone intimately familiar with the native platform. I note that you're a web developer. Full disclosure, I work in the native mobile development space.
      - marknutter 14y ago
        I do native development as well as web development. It's easier to get a performant native app than an HTML5 app, no question. But you can create a native feeling HTML5 app that really only the trained eye of a developer would be able to notice the difference of. Most people don't even know the difference between a native and an html5 app. Devices will continue to get faster, and just like on the desktop native applications will be relegated to hardcore apps like 3d games and content creation programs like iMovie, etc.
      - kevincennis 14y ago
        Completely agreed that a well-optimized native app will outperform a well-written HTML5 app every time. I do think, though, that the difference is getting smaller - especially for apps like Facebook, which are almost entirely content-driven. Things like games are obviously a totally different story. Even five or ten years out, it's hard to imagine HTML5 games with WebGL or whatever seriously competing with native apps.
kevincennis 14y ago
I completely agree with that - but I'd argue that the overwhelming majority of "slowness" felt with Facebook's iOS app revolves around lengthy requests, not a lack or responsiveness on user interactions.
- scott_s 14y ago
  Personally, it's both. The application stutters for me constantly. I use my thumb to scroll, and the application does not respond for a second, then quickly catches up to what I did. That I assume will be fixed by going native.
  - kevincennis 14y ago
    I'd imagine that the average, non-HackerNews-reading user is far more sensitive to "this takes FOREVER to load" than "this scrolling is choppy".
    - flatline3 14y ago
      And yet Apple spent a ridiculous amount of time and money to make sure scrolling would be glassy smooth.
    - scott_s 14y ago
      I imagine both bother them about equally, but that they don't distinguish between them. They're both just the app being "slow." To be clear, the scrolling isn't just a little choppy. It's a delay of a full second sometimes.

marknutter 14y ago

Download LinkedIn's iPad app. It's a situation where a WebView-based app is as good as native.

devinfoley 14y ago
Sorry, but I'd disagree. The transitions aren't very smooth and often times you're faced with a blank screen while waiting for assets to load. I was actually very hopeful that the app would feel as good as native after I'd read about it, but I was disappointed.
- marknutter 14y ago
  It may have to do with the hardware. On my iPad 3 it feels exactly as good as native.
  - flatline3 14y ago
    That hasn't been my experience. "It's as good as native" seems more driven from hope than reality, or more generously, ignorance of the differences that would stick out like a sore thumb to someone intimately familiar with the native platform. I note that you're a web developer. Full disclosure, I work in the native mobile development space.
    - marknutter 14y ago
      I do native development as well as web development. It's easier to get a performant native app than an HTML5 app, no question. But you can create a native feeling HTML5 app that really only the trained eye of a developer would be able to notice the difference of. Most people don't even know the difference between a native and an html5 app. Devices will continue to get faster, and just like on the desktop native applications will be relegated to hardcore apps like 3d games and content creation programs like iMovie, etc.
    - kevincennis 14y ago
      Completely agreed that a well-optimized native app will outperform a well-written HTML5 app every time. I do think, though, that the difference is getting smaller - especially for apps like Facebook, which are almost entirely content-driven. Things like games are obviously a totally different story. Even five or ten years out, it's hard to imagine HTML5 games with WebGL or whatever seriously competing with native apps.

kevincennis 14y ago

I completely agree with that - but I'd argue that the overwhelming majority of "slowness" felt with Facebook's iOS app revolves around lengthy requests, not a lack or responsiveness on user interactions.

scott_s 14y ago
Personally, it's both. The application stutters for me constantly. I use my thumb to scroll, and the application does not respond for a second, then quickly catches up to what I did. That I assume will be fixed by going native.
- kevincennis 14y ago
  I'd imagine that the average, non-HackerNews-reading user is far more sensitive to "this takes FOREVER to load" than "this scrolling is choppy".
  - flatline3 14y ago
    And yet Apple spent a ridiculous amount of time and money to make sure scrolling would be glassy smooth.
  - scott_s 14y ago
    I imagine both bother them about equally, but that they don't distinguish between them. They're both just the app being "slow." To be clear, the scrolling isn't just a little choppy. It's a delay of a full second sometimes.