5 ms·

I agree. this story plays out exactly like every teenage coder's wet dream. It's got everything: persecution, vindication, crap boss who for some reason gets f

by rprasad 14y ago

I agree. this story plays out exactly like every teenage coder's wet dream. It's got everything: persecution, vindication, crap boss who for some reason gets fired for firing the teenager (in the real world, firing someone who refused to turn over company property is not a reason to get fired), teenager saves everyone else's jobs, and even gets a promotion to a much better job. This kid apparently also has insane negotiation skills, and somehow managed to negotiate his own salary increase and salary increases for everyone else around him. All this, in a month... We'll probably see an update in the next day or two that this story was a hoax. UPDATE: More evidence of a hoax: the kid was making more money in an entry-level data-entry position than a manager-level employee in the company. And that entry-level data-entry position paid substantial bonsuses (which is the alleged reason the kid was making more than his manager.) And on top of all that, the boss was not eligible for bonuses bases on the productivity of his supervisees. Finally, the kid is now apparently the lead programmer in his own frigging department but somehow does not have the authority to change his desk chair. Yeah, that's all completely believable.

smallegan 14y ago
I was under the impression the boss had fired him and then asked for the password.
- rprasad 14y ago
  That would be standard operating procedure. The kid's program (if it really exists) would be company property, and his failure to turn over the password could result in civil litigation (or potentially, but unlikely) criminal prosecution.
  - tijs 14y ago
    Luckily all of this happened, i think i believe it did, in The Netherlands where litigation over this sort of thing is just not very common. Especially in smaller companies as this one seems to be.
  - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
    A password is not property. The company holds the copyright to the software, but the employee has no obligation to have made the software usable for any purpose. (No more than a cabinetmaker who creates an innovative jig is reqyired to write a manual or provide training.)
    - Confusion 14y ago
      You're wrong. Anything you produce in company time that is even remotely jon related, is company property. The code, the binary, the password and any intellectual property rights protecting them is the company's property. Every contract clearly arranges that, so you can't extort your former boss, as in the story. If your contract doesn't contain such clauses, your company is incompetent.
      - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
        Property is tangible. The computer that stores the software is property, the software is merely a configuration of the property. Certain monopoly privileges regarding that configuration (copyright) might be assigned to the company depending on the details of the contract and local laws. Providing a password is an activity. Whether the employee has a duty to perform that activity depends on the contract and circumstances. In this case, the employee was not assigned the task of writing down the password, so failing to write down the password was not a breach of duty. His boss attempted to negotiate a new employment arrangement involving writing down the password, and negotiations fell through. Extortion is the threat to perform an unlawful act unless demands are met. This case was not extortion because the employee did not perform any act, let alone an unlawful one. Put simply, if an employee goes beyond the call of duty, the employer cannot compel them to continue going beyond the call of duty. All the employer can do is fire them.
        esrauch 14y ago
        By setting the password and not providing it is denying the company access to their own property and is likely to be criminal in most states. For example http://www.networkworld.com/slideshows/2008/071708-report-it-admin-locks-up.html http://www.networkworld.com/slideshows/2008/071708-report-it...
- pcrh 14y ago
  In the Netherlands he wouldn't be let go immediately, there would be a variable legally-required period of time before he is shown the door, during that time he is still technically employed by the company. I suspect that it is during this period that he spoke to the senior manager.
Goladus 14y ago
Upper-level bosses probably never had any intention of firing all the workers just because some script automated a portion of their work. If it's a large-scale, decisions like that probably wouldn't be made without considering MPL abstractly or without considering the costs and bad PR incurred when laying off a significant number of people. That part of the narrative was likely more significant in the kid's mind than reality. And apparently, the sub-boss was already on thin ice. This may have just been the final excuse needed to get rid of him.
- mst 14y ago
  Also, much empire building happens by headcount; if the work's all still getting done, better to retain the headcount than to faff around with redundancies. I got my first real programming job because I automated dumb work and my then-boss handed me a bunch of extra unautomatable administration work; I went and explained this to his ex-boss at the company he'd left and started competing with, and said ex-boss figured anybody the idiot wanted to shit on was worth a try. Now, in this case we're talking about two people still within the reporting chain, but if $redditor->boss->boss hated $redditor->boss as much as my first programming boss hated the previous boss, and $redditor->boss->boss managed to look good screwing him ... then it seems entirely plausible. I still feel like it doesn't smell quite right, but it is to my mind way more plausible than people are giving it credit for.
- wisty 14y ago
  Also, I'd guess that when all his employees were re-assigned, there wasn't much point in keeping him on.
  - simonbrown 14y ago
    The post states that one of his coworkers was promoted to the role.
kenrikm 14y ago
I guess you have not worked at a company where these types of things can and do happen? It's a plausible story in my book since I had something similar happen early in my career. My boss hated me and another new hire (fear) and kept telling the VP that were were "not working and slow" well without letting my manager know the VP started logging all of the work and found that in a given week I produced 40% of the work, the other new hire produced 30% and the other three people on the team produced 10% each (including my manager) She was fired and I was given her position after being with the company for only a few months.
- ceol 14y ago
  That isn't the same at all.
  - kenrikm 14y ago
    Boss, wanted to fire, Boss got fired, got Boss position. Similar plot line IMO.
    - kd0amg 14y ago
      Similar to "entry-level data entry job that pays more than the management job above it"?
      - rprasad 14y ago
        According to reddit commenters, the reddit poster was making 6 figures (in Euros) for a data entry job (another HN commenter put this number at 250,000, but I couldn't find anything on reddit to support that). The manager was apparently only making 5 figures. I'm willing to believe that managers can make less than their underlings (for example, project managers can make less than programmers depending on experience, sales managers can make less than salesmen once commissions are factored in) but I am not willing to believe that an entry-level data entry position pays 6 figures. Especially not in the Netherlands.
        14y ago
qq66 14y ago
I can't really speculate on whether the story is true or not. At least some parts of his story are similar to my own, which I posted on the original Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/tenoq/reddit_my_friends_call_me_a_scumbag_because_i/c4m2ps2 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/tenoq/reddit_my_f...
shalmanese 14y ago
> Finally, the kid is now apparently the lead programmer in his own frigging department but somehow does not have the authority to change his desk chair. Sadly, this is probably the most believable part of the entire story :(.
- zheng 14y ago
  Not really. I'm the most junior person in my department and I can get a new chair if I want one. Big company too.
  - cookiecaper 14y ago
    This is actually more likely in a big company. Money means little to big companies; unless they screw up in a very serious way, the money available for individual trinkets like desk chairs is almost unlimited. In a small company, an extra Aeron can put you in the red. Also, if money belongs to a faceless entity and does not directly effect the individuals that hold the purse strings, people tend to be much more loose with the cash. This is a big reason why B2B is almost always a much better course than B2C. In a small company, there's still a founder who considers overall income vital to his sustenance, and as such is much stingier than a big corp.
onedev 14y ago
Regarding your update, I'm pretty sure that he was making more money at the entry-level data-entry position than his manager because he was ALSO getting 99% of the bonus pool. So Bonus Pool + Base Salary > Manager's Salary Which is more believable.

by rprasad 14y ago

smallegan 14y ago

I was under the impression the boss had fired him and then asked for the password.

rprasad 14y ago
That would be standard operating procedure. The kid's program (if it really exists) would be company property, and his failure to turn over the password could result in civil litigation (or potentially, but unlikely) criminal prosecution.
- tijs 14y ago
  Luckily all of this happened, i think i believe it did, in The Netherlands where litigation over this sort of thing is just not very common. Especially in smaller companies as this one seems to be.
- Daniel_Newby 14y ago
  A password is not property. The company holds the copyright to the software, but the employee has no obligation to have made the software usable for any purpose. (No more than a cabinetmaker who creates an innovative jig is reqyired to write a manual or provide training.)
  - Confusion 14y ago
    You're wrong. Anything you produce in company time that is even remotely jon related, is company property. The code, the binary, the password and any intellectual property rights protecting them is the company's property. Every contract clearly arranges that, so you can't extort your former boss, as in the story. If your contract doesn't contain such clauses, your company is incompetent.
    - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
      Property is tangible. The computer that stores the software is property, the software is merely a configuration of the property. Certain monopoly privileges regarding that configuration (copyright) might be assigned to the company depending on the details of the contract and local laws. Providing a password is an activity. Whether the employee has a duty to perform that activity depends on the contract and circumstances. In this case, the employee was not assigned the task of writing down the password, so failing to write down the password was not a breach of duty. His boss attempted to negotiate a new employment arrangement involving writing down the password, and negotiations fell through. Extortion is the threat to perform an unlawful act unless demands are met. This case was not extortion because the employee did not perform any act, let alone an unlawful one. Put simply, if an employee goes beyond the call of duty, the employer cannot compel them to continue going beyond the call of duty. All the employer can do is fire them.
      - esrauch 14y ago
        By setting the password and not providing it is denying the company access to their own property and is likely to be criminal in most states. For example http://www.networkworld.com/slideshows/2008/071708-report-it-admin-locks-up.html http://www.networkworld.com/slideshows/2008/071708-report-it...
pcrh 14y ago
In the Netherlands he wouldn't be let go immediately, there would be a variable legally-required period of time before he is shown the door, during that time he is still technically employed by the company. I suspect that it is during this period that he spoke to the senior manager.

Goladus 14y ago

Upper-level bosses probably never had any intention of firing all the workers just because some script automated a portion of their work. If it's a large-scale, decisions like that probably wouldn't be made without considering MPL abstractly or without considering the costs and bad PR incurred when laying off a significant number of people. That part of the narrative was likely more significant in the kid's mind than reality. And apparently, the sub-boss was already on thin ice. This may have just been the final excuse needed to get rid of him.

mst 14y ago
Also, much empire building happens by headcount; if the work's all still getting done, better to retain the headcount than to faff around with redundancies. I got my first real programming job because I automated dumb work and my then-boss handed me a bunch of extra unautomatable administration work; I went and explained this to his ex-boss at the company he'd left and started competing with, and said ex-boss figured anybody the idiot wanted to shit on was worth a try. Now, in this case we're talking about two people still within the reporting chain, but if $redditor->boss->boss hated $redditor->boss as much as my first programming boss hated the previous boss, and $redditor->boss->boss managed to look good screwing him ... then it seems entirely plausible. I still feel like it doesn't smell quite right, but it is to my mind way more plausible than people are giving it credit for.
wisty 14y ago
Also, I'd guess that when all his employees were re-assigned, there wasn't much point in keeping him on.
- simonbrown 14y ago
  The post states that one of his coworkers was promoted to the role.

kenrikm 14y ago

I guess you have not worked at a company where these types of things can and do happen? It's a plausible story in my book since I had something similar happen early in my career. My boss hated me and another new hire (fear) and kept telling the VP that were were "not working and slow" well without letting my manager know the VP started logging all of the work and found that in a given week I produced 40% of the work, the other new hire produced 30% and the other three people on the team produced 10% each (including my manager) She was fired and I was given her position after being with the company for only a few months.

ceol 14y ago
That isn't the same at all.
- kenrikm 14y ago
  Boss, wanted to fire, Boss got fired, got Boss position. Similar plot line IMO.
  - kd0amg 14y ago
    Similar to "entry-level data entry job that pays more than the management job above it"?
    - rprasad 14y ago
      According to reddit commenters, the reddit poster was making 6 figures (in Euros) for a data entry job (another HN commenter put this number at 250,000, but I couldn't find anything on reddit to support that). The manager was apparently only making 5 figures. I'm willing to believe that managers can make less than their underlings (for example, project managers can make less than programmers depending on experience, sales managers can make less than salesmen once commissions are factored in) but I am not willing to believe that an entry-level data entry position pays 6 figures. Especially not in the Netherlands.
      - 14y ago

qq66 14y ago

I can't really speculate on whether the story is true or not. At least some parts of his story are similar to my own, which I posted on the original Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/tenoq/reddit_my_friends_call_me_a_scumbag_because_i/c4m2ps2 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/tenoq/reddit_my_f...

shalmanese 14y ago

> Finally, the kid is now apparently the lead programmer in his own frigging department but somehow does not have the authority to change his desk chair. Sadly, this is probably the most believable part of the entire story :(.

zheng 14y ago
Not really. I'm the most junior person in my department and I can get a new chair if I want one. Big company too.
- cookiecaper 14y ago
  This is actually more likely in a big company. Money means little to big companies; unless they screw up in a very serious way, the money available for individual trinkets like desk chairs is almost unlimited. In a small company, an extra Aeron can put you in the red. Also, if money belongs to a faceless entity and does not directly effect the individuals that hold the purse strings, people tend to be much more loose with the cash. This is a big reason why B2B is almost always a much better course than B2C. In a small company, there's still a founder who considers overall income vital to his sustenance, and as such is much stingier than a big corp.

onedev 14y ago

Regarding your update, I'm pretty sure that he was making more money at the entry-level data-entry position than his manager because he was ALSO getting 99% of the bonus pool. So Bonus Pool + Base Salary > Manager's Salary Which is more believable.