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I think those final 8% demands we’ve heard about have been after months of stalled conversations with WP Engine. Given the lack of reliable information right n

I think those final 8% demands we’ve heard about have been after months of stalled conversations with WP Engine. Given the lack of reliable information right now, I’m going to believe the individual that has a decades-long track record indicating that they care about open source over the private company that is legally obligated to pursue profit as its only objective.

aimazon 2y ago
What are you choosing to believe? The 8% isn’t disputed. Matt has acknowledged it is true. Matt has acknowledged his actions are because he believes WPEngine are not fulfilling their moral obligation. The facts are settled, the question is whether you side with Matt’s belief about WPEngine’s obligations and how you feel about Matt’s actions (in the context of Matt operating a competitor).
- Zamiel_Snawley 2y ago
  I’m saying that his 8% demand sounds like the last line in a long conversation with an interlocutor acting in bad faith, trying to slow walk the inevitable demise of the relationship. If WP Engine had acted in good faith, Matt wouldn’t have had to come up with terms unilaterally.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
jcranmer 2y ago
I do not think it appropriate to believe the individual who is in two roles and is trying to use his position in one role to benefit his other role, especially while trying to muddy in which role he is acting.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
> I think those final 8% demands we’ve heard about have been after months of stalled conversations with WP Engine. Who gives a shit, it doesn't matter. Why would he think WP Engine would pay anything they're not contractually obligated to pay? This has all played out similarly elsewhere, e.g. to the point that some companies have started to carve out a new types of licensing so that all of the "open source revenue" doesn't just get vacuumed up by the big clouds/hosting providers (e.g. see the "Fair Source" movement being promoted by Elastic and others). Matt could have gone down that route. I could easily imagine a million ways he could have handled this better and gotten the community on his side. Instead he's acting like a collosal asshole.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  Are contracts everything? Matt created Wordpress. I think he’s more deserving of the spoils than some company whose owner is Silver Lake, one of the most evil PE firms. Reminder: https://www.wired.com/2011/06/skype-silver-lake-evil/ https://www.wired.com/2011/06/skype-silver-lake-evil/
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    Again, who gives a shit? I'm in no way saying WP Engine is some sort of angelic organization, and I don't care. All I see is childlike behavior from someone who definitely should not be in control of both Automattic and the WordPress Foundation, and my guess is that if the board doesn't force his ouster that WPF will have serious issues with the IRS. Also, the whole point of open source is that you don't "own it" after it's open sourced. If you don't like those terms, license them under different ones, which exactly what the whole recent "Fair Source" movement is about and what other companies like Sentry have handled in a much more dignified fashion.
    - salesynerd 2y ago
      Maybe, the newcomers have learnt the lessons from the travails of the old open source projects? That doesn't mean that the oldies should just suck it and keep quiet.
  - nsonha 2y ago
    Accept it, it is the deal with opensource. It's also the basis that people should be using when debating OSS versus other models. People should not be making business or policies or economic decisions based on some unenforceable honor system
    - Zamiel_Snawley 2y ago
      Agreed, WP Engine shouldn’t have left their customers wellbeing up to the whims of an organization they were antagonizing. WP Engine was banking on the free stuff from Wordpress.org, and they got burned because they bit the hand that was feeding them.
cscurmudgeon 2y ago
> the individual The same guy running a for profit company?

aimazon 2y ago

What are you choosing to believe? The 8% isn’t disputed. Matt has acknowledged it is true. Matt has acknowledged his actions are because he believes WPEngine are not fulfilling their moral obligation. The facts are settled, the question is whether you side with Matt’s belief about WPEngine’s obligations and how you feel about Matt’s actions (in the context of Matt operating a competitor).

Zamiel_Snawley 2y ago
I’m saying that his 8% demand sounds like the last line in a long conversation with an interlocutor acting in bad faith, trying to slow walk the inevitable demise of the relationship. If WP Engine had acted in good faith, Matt wouldn’t have had to come up with terms unilaterally.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

jcranmer 2y ago

I do not think it appropriate to believe the individual who is in two roles and is trying to use his position in one role to benefit his other role, especially while trying to muddy in which role he is acting.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

> I think those final 8% demands we’ve heard about have been after months of stalled conversations with WP Engine. Who gives a shit, it doesn't matter. Why would he think WP Engine would pay anything they're not contractually obligated to pay? This has all played out similarly elsewhere, e.g. to the point that some companies have started to carve out a new types of licensing so that all of the "open source revenue" doesn't just get vacuumed up by the big clouds/hosting providers (e.g. see the "Fair Source" movement being promoted by Elastic and others). Matt could have gone down that route. I could easily imagine a million ways he could have handled this better and gotten the community on his side. Instead he's acting like a collosal asshole.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Are contracts everything? Matt created Wordpress. I think he’s more deserving of the spoils than some company whose owner is Silver Lake, one of the most evil PE firms. Reminder: https://www.wired.com/2011/06/skype-silver-lake-evil/ https://www.wired.com/2011/06/skype-silver-lake-evil/
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Again, who gives a shit? I'm in no way saying WP Engine is some sort of angelic organization, and I don't care. All I see is childlike behavior from someone who definitely should not be in control of both Automattic and the WordPress Foundation, and my guess is that if the board doesn't force his ouster that WPF will have serious issues with the IRS. Also, the whole point of open source is that you don't "own it" after it's open sourced. If you don't like those terms, license them under different ones, which exactly what the whole recent "Fair Source" movement is about and what other companies like Sentry have handled in a much more dignified fashion.
  - salesynerd 2y ago
    Maybe, the newcomers have learnt the lessons from the travails of the old open source projects? That doesn't mean that the oldies should just suck it and keep quiet.
- nsonha 2y ago
  Accept it, it is the deal with opensource. It's also the basis that people should be using when debating OSS versus other models. People should not be making business or policies or economic decisions based on some unenforceable honor system
  - Zamiel_Snawley 2y ago
    Agreed, WP Engine shouldn’t have left their customers wellbeing up to the whims of an organization they were antagonizing. WP Engine was banking on the free stuff from Wordpress.org, and they got burned because they bit the hand that was feeding them.

cscurmudgeon 2y ago

> the individual The same guy running a for profit company?