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Go tell the Ukrainian military that they "don't care for any possible hurt to the human life." It puzzles me how that can be going on and people still think th

Go tell the Ukrainian military that they "don't care for any possible hurt to the human life." It puzzles me how that can be going on and people still think that any military use of tech is inherently immoral. The morality is in the cause the war is being fought for.

beezlewax 2y ago
War is never moral
- nirav72 2y ago
  Wars and conflicts have been around long before we had defined morals.
  - appendix-rock 2y ago
    That is both utterly thought-terminating and irrelevant.
    - nirav72 2y ago
      So is a reductive opinion such as “war is never moral” and completely ignoring thousands of years of human history.
- psunavy03 2y ago
  So the Ukrainians should not be defending themselves against a foreign invasion? Defending themselves against foreign aggressors who have committed documented atrocities against their population, and who are on record as intending to commit genocide against them when they win, is immoral?
- hnhg 2y ago
  Resisting occupation?
- Spivak 2y ago
  Not even the Catholic Church agrees with you and they're famously aggressively anti-war. From Pope Francis, “war is in itself a crime against humanity.” John Paul II, "No, never again war, which destroys the lives of innocent people, teaches how to kill, throws into upheaval even the lives of those who do the killing and leaves behind a trail of resentment and hatred." And yet church doctrine outlines the criteria for a just war. 1. The damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain. 2. All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective. 3. There must be serious prospects of success. 4. The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The US gets tripped up on 4. a lot.
  - psunavy03 2y ago
    #3 and #4 are worth valuing, but also sometimes wickedly hard to measure. I mean, look at the interventions in places like Yugoslavia and Libya, where the goal was to stop disorder and/or genocide. Or the disaster that was the UN intervention in Rwanda. Clausewitz teaches that wars have a character all their own, unique to their time and circumstance, and that understanding the nature of the war you are engaged in is simultaneously vital and very, very difficult to do.
greatgib 2y ago
That is unrelated. If you develop new kind of weapons, both sides will use it in the end. And in addition, from all sides, if official military agencies want to use a tech, no one will be able to prevent them. But it is another thing to have a corporation actively supporting the military complex by working with it if it can increase their profit.
soxletor 2y ago
It is because I am lottery winner that was lucky enough to have been born in a time and place that going to war was never a serious consideration as a young man, unlike almost every other young man of the past. The closest I had to get was watching my country blow things up on CNN. A person in this situation can't help but to have a ridiculous, unrealistic perspective on war.

beezlewax 2y ago

War is never moral

nirav72 2y ago
Wars and conflicts have been around long before we had defined morals.
- appendix-rock 2y ago
  That is both utterly thought-terminating and irrelevant.
  - nirav72 2y ago
    So is a reductive opinion such as “war is never moral” and completely ignoring thousands of years of human history.
psunavy03 2y ago
So the Ukrainians should not be defending themselves against a foreign invasion? Defending themselves against foreign aggressors who have committed documented atrocities against their population, and who are on record as intending to commit genocide against them when they win, is immoral?
hnhg 2y ago
Resisting occupation?
Spivak 2y ago
Not even the Catholic Church agrees with you and they're famously aggressively anti-war. From Pope Francis, “war is in itself a crime against humanity.” John Paul II, "No, never again war, which destroys the lives of innocent people, teaches how to kill, throws into upheaval even the lives of those who do the killing and leaves behind a trail of resentment and hatred." And yet church doctrine outlines the criteria for a just war. 1. The damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain. 2. All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective. 3. There must be serious prospects of success. 4. The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The US gets tripped up on 4. a lot.
- psunavy03 2y ago
  #3 and #4 are worth valuing, but also sometimes wickedly hard to measure. I mean, look at the interventions in places like Yugoslavia and Libya, where the goal was to stop disorder and/or genocide. Or the disaster that was the UN intervention in Rwanda. Clausewitz teaches that wars have a character all their own, unique to their time and circumstance, and that understanding the nature of the war you are engaged in is simultaneously vital and very, very difficult to do.

greatgib 2y ago

That is unrelated. If you develop new kind of weapons, both sides will use it in the end. And in addition, from all sides, if official military agencies want to use a tech, no one will be able to prevent them. But it is another thing to have a corporation actively supporting the military complex by working with it if it can increase their profit.

soxletor 2y ago

It is because I am lottery winner that was lucky enough to have been born in a time and place that going to war was never a serious consideration as a young man, unlike almost every other young man of the past. The closest I had to get was watching my country blow things up on CNN. A person in this situation can't help but to have a ridiculous, unrealistic perspective on war.