3 ms·

> C appears more and more relevant these days C is not relevant any more, not sure what world you are living in. it only has any relevance because it was the b

by 38 2y ago

> C appears more and more relevant these days C is not relevant any more, not sure what world you are living in. it only has any relevance because it was the best option at the time decades ago, and so people are forced to use it when making syscalls. thats it.

rramadass 2y ago
What? There are more embedded devices than ever running C/C++ code today. All OSes, System utils etc. are still done in C/C++. All higher level performance oriented frameworks/libraries in any domain (eg. AI/ML) are implemented in C/C++ and then a interface to them are given through wrappers in other languages. Also C is the common "lingua-franca" across languages. C is still in the top five in the TIOBE index today.
- 38 2y ago
  > All OSes, System utils etc. are still done in C/C++. first of all, no. plenty of OS are made in other languages. also, the big OS WERE written in C, and only remain so in order to avoid redoing millions of lines of code. > and then a interface to them are given through wrappers in other languages again this is only done because the OS is using an outdated language, so people are forced to work with it. > C is still in the top five in the TIOBE index today that doesnt matter, this does: https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/pull_requests/2024/1 https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/pull_requests/2024/1
  - rramadass 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - 38 2y ago
      > Github by itself is not enough; there are orders of magnitude more code outside of it and hence your assumption is wrong. Also most C/C++ folks prefer to keep code local (proprietary and personal reasons) and hence are not sampled. "you're wrong man, C totally has a bunch of code being used thats private, I swear". you could say that about every single other language. only thing that matter is what can be measured. C is dead man, you are just in denial. its an old crap language that hasn't been relevant in at least a decade. if you need some evidence, just look to the fact that after decades it still doesn't have a package manager, so many people laughably just vendor code when working with C projects.
      - rramadass 2y ago
        [flagged]
        lifthrasiir 2y ago
        TIOBE can remain transparent and also be seriously flawed in its methodology, which has been already questioned for many years. No popularity indicators would be entirely free from flaws, but anyone who are aware of TIOBE's possible flaws always quote multiple indicators including PYPL [1] and RedMonk Top 20 [2]. That's how you can remain convincing even with only possibly flawed data sources. While C/C++ will remain an important language for many years, its continuing decline is also clear from those indicators. In fact even the most recent TIOBE has reported the lowest ever position (4th) for C, and that fact was already well known for other indicators: PYPL indicator for C was roughly in decline for a decade, so did its RedMonk ranking as well. They both estimate the current use of given language by looking at popularity of tutorials or questions, while TIOBE estimates the cumulative use of given language. All things equal, TIOBE is going to be systematically delayed compared to others, yet still TIOBE ranking for C is now falling and there is no reason to believe otherwise. [1] https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html [2] https://redmonk.com/rstephens/2024/09/12/top20-jun2024/ https://redmonk.com/rstephens/2024/09/12/top20-jun2024/
        rramadass 2y ago
        What you are pointing out is nothing revelatory. That a statistical index is dependent on data and methodology is a vacuously true statement and not an argument. That there are multiple indexes trying to measure the same thing is also true and not an argument. The point was to show an index which is well respected (criticisms not withstanding) as a counter to silly claims. I personally do not place much stock in these rankings since all of them are flawed in their sampling methodology due to using only publicly accessible indicators like google searches, stack overflow questions, job postings, Github and similar public repositories etc. C programmers on average are more experienced and hence have no need for these. They are already aware of most of the Good/Bad/Ugly about the language and are used to working out problems for themselves and hence don't show up in these metrics. Thus C/C++ rankings might appear to be waning when they are holding steady or rising much more slowly w.r.t. others.

by 38 2y ago

rramadass 2y ago

What? There are more embedded devices than ever running C/C++ code today. All OSes, System utils etc. are still done in C/C++. All higher level performance oriented frameworks/libraries in any domain (eg. AI/ML) are implemented in C/C++ and then a interface to them are given through wrappers in other languages. Also C is the common "lingua-franca" across languages. C is still in the top five in the TIOBE index today.

38 2y ago
> All OSes, System utils etc. are still done in C/C++. first of all, no. plenty of OS are made in other languages. also, the big OS WERE written in C, and only remain so in order to avoid redoing millions of lines of code. > and then a interface to them are given through wrappers in other languages again this is only done because the OS is using an outdated language, so people are forced to work with it. > C is still in the top five in the TIOBE index today that doesnt matter, this does: https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/pull_requests/2024/1 https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/pull_requests/2024/1
- rramadass 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - 38 2y ago
    > Github by itself is not enough; there are orders of magnitude more code outside of it and hence your assumption is wrong. Also most C/C++ folks prefer to keep code local (proprietary and personal reasons) and hence are not sampled. "you're wrong man, C totally has a bunch of code being used thats private, I swear". you could say that about every single other language. only thing that matter is what can be measured. C is dead man, you are just in denial. its an old crap language that hasn't been relevant in at least a decade. if you need some evidence, just look to the fact that after decades it still doesn't have a package manager, so many people laughably just vendor code when working with C projects.
    - rramadass 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - lifthrasiir 2y ago
        TIOBE can remain transparent and also be seriously flawed in its methodology, which has been already questioned for many years. No popularity indicators would be entirely free from flaws, but anyone who are aware of TIOBE's possible flaws always quote multiple indicators including PYPL [1] and RedMonk Top 20 [2]. That's how you can remain convincing even with only possibly flawed data sources. While C/C++ will remain an important language for many years, its continuing decline is also clear from those indicators. In fact even the most recent TIOBE has reported the lowest ever position (4th) for C, and that fact was already well known for other indicators: PYPL indicator for C was roughly in decline for a decade, so did its RedMonk ranking as well. They both estimate the current use of given language by looking at popularity of tutorials or questions, while TIOBE estimates the cumulative use of given language. All things equal, TIOBE is going to be systematically delayed compared to others, yet still TIOBE ranking for C is now falling and there is no reason to believe otherwise. [1] https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html [2] https://redmonk.com/rstephens/2024/09/12/top20-jun2024/ https://redmonk.com/rstephens/2024/09/12/top20-jun2024/
        rramadass 2y ago
        What you are pointing out is nothing revelatory. That a statistical index is dependent on data and methodology is a vacuously true statement and not an argument. That there are multiple indexes trying to measure the same thing is also true and not an argument. The point was to show an index which is well respected (criticisms not withstanding) as a counter to silly claims. I personally do not place much stock in these rankings since all of them are flawed in their sampling methodology due to using only publicly accessible indicators like google searches, stack overflow questions, job postings, Github and similar public repositories etc. C programmers on average are more experienced and hence have no need for these. They are already aware of most of the Good/Bad/Ugly about the language and are used to working out problems for themselves and hence don't show up in these metrics. Thus C/C++ rankings might appear to be waning when they are holding steady or rising much more slowly w.r.t. others.