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Could private school vouchers and magnet schools fix it? I feel like a lot of problems with teaching is due to overregulation from department of education and

by slt2021 2y ago

Could private school vouchers and magnet schools fix it? I feel like a lot of problems with teaching is due to overregulation from department of education and increasing scope bloat of their responsibilities. Just stick to mass daycare with curriculum model and allow free competition from private sector and it should be fine. The best compensated teachers are the ones that achieve results: train champions and elevate students to their highest potential. Its not going to happen at public school

jghn 2y ago
> Could private school vouchers Ask Arizona how it is going [1] [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/arizona-school-vouchers-budget-meltdown https://www.propublica.org/article/arizona-school-vouchers-b...
- Terr_ 2y ago
  "To open our meeting, good news: This year we managed to direct a ton of public tax dollars towards our favorite private entities and churches, and the budget shortfall gives us an excuse to strangle other safety-net programs we already didn't like!" /s As a note for non-US folks, individual states cannot print currency the same way the federal government can, so budget shortfalls on that level are a lot more immediate and impactful.
- diddid 2y ago
  It was an interesting read, but it only says how much they spend on school vouchers. I didn’t see a spend for the standard public schools. They said the average voucher was 7k which is almost for sure lower than what public school is charging per student. Maybe they just need to add an income requirement to it and if you make too much no voucher.
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-school-spending-per-pupil.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-s... ~$10k, so yes the voucher is less than what the public school students are getting (directly from their teachers and indirectly through other school services and faculty).
- slt2021 2y ago
  I read the article and think that Arizona's problems are not inherent to the voucher system per se, just how they administered it. People found a loophole. Need to tie closely the money coming out with the voucher and the corresponding decrease in spend on public school system
Jtsummers 2y ago
Magnet schools are public schools, but usually with more motivated students or involved parents. The more motivated students part can help, it's more enjoyable to go to work teaching when most of the class wants to be there.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
panzagl 2y ago
Private schools (and charters) usually pay worse than public schools.
- slt2021 2y ago
  private schools face fierce competition and immediate feedback loop from parents. public school system is not accountable at all to parents. this makes sure that interest of school and parents and kids are aligned and no political bs coming from above like DoE
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Public schools are painfully accountable to whichever parents have the most free time and least shame. One of the greatest superpowers of good private schools is a long wait list of applicants that let them tell not just troublemakers, but anyone not on-board and cooperative with their approach, to get bent.
    - slt2021 2y ago
      not at the district/state/federal level, unfortunately. These DoE bureacrats in DC (and lawmakers) send their kids to private schools, while over-regulate public schools with nonsense and grift. Regular public school principal has very limited arsenal of tools he can do to meet parents' needs, unfortunately. its like you can only complain to McDonald's store manager, but McDonalds shareholders dont give a damn about your complaints, unless you take your business elsewhere - and with public schools you cannot take your business elsewhere. Taxes always go to public schools. and through teacher's unions regulatory capture and lobby they always make sure the grift continues.
jgeada 2y ago
Private school vouchers are the worst idea ever. How's removing yet more funding for public schools supposed to be an answer to public schools don't have enough funding? As the funny paraphrasing goes (https://x.com/teedjvt/status/1685251077753430016 https://x.com/teedjvt/status/1685251077753430016) "I don't really like the city parks. I want to join a country club so my kid doesn't have to play with 'those' kids and I want the city parks system to pay for my membership"
- slt2021 2y ago
  public school system is full of grift, politically appointed and allocated resources, and zero accountability. if you face inefficient system that cannot manage resources - you cannot pour more resources and expect better results. as a proof you can look at Chicago, DC and Baltimore school systems that have the highest per capita spend and the lowest academic achievement metrics. we just need to provide parents an option to opt-out of crooked system
  - jgeada 2y ago
    Nobody forces you to put your kids in public schools. But just like other taxes you don’t get to opt out of paying and you don’t get to take your money back.
    - slt2021 2y ago
      well the voucher system allows me to opt out of supporting this corrupt system with my taxes.
      - jgeada 2y ago
        How about the pentagon, or homeland security, or … Why are you picking on the fractional pennies in the budget and letting the millions go out the door? The system is corrupt precisely because people with influence are allowed to opt out & simultaneously benefit.

jghn 2y ago

> Could private school vouchers Ask Arizona how it is going [1] [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/arizona-school-vouchers-budget-meltdown https://www.propublica.org/article/arizona-school-vouchers-b...

Terr_ 2y ago
"To open our meeting, good news: This year we managed to direct a ton of public tax dollars towards our favorite private entities and churches, and the budget shortfall gives us an excuse to strangle other safety-net programs we already didn't like!" /s As a note for non-US folks, individual states cannot print currency the same way the federal government can, so budget shortfalls on that level are a lot more immediate and impactful.
diddid 2y ago
It was an interesting read, but it only says how much they spend on school vouchers. I didn’t see a spend for the standard public schools. They said the average voucher was 7k which is almost for sure lower than what public school is charging per student. Maybe they just need to add an income requirement to it and if you make too much no voucher.
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-school-spending-per-pupil.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/public-s... ~$10k, so yes the voucher is less than what the public school students are getting (directly from their teachers and indirectly through other school services and faculty).
slt2021 2y ago
I read the article and think that Arizona's problems are not inherent to the voucher system per se, just how they administered it. People found a loophole. Need to tie closely the money coming out with the voucher and the corresponding decrease in spend on public school system

Jtsummers 2y ago

Magnet schools are public schools, but usually with more motivated students or involved parents. The more motivated students part can help, it's more enjoyable to go to work teaching when most of the class wants to be there.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

panzagl 2y ago

Private schools (and charters) usually pay worse than public schools.

slt2021 2y ago
private schools face fierce competition and immediate feedback loop from parents. public school system is not accountable at all to parents. this makes sure that interest of school and parents and kids are aligned and no political bs coming from above like DoE
- vundercind 2y ago
  Public schools are painfully accountable to whichever parents have the most free time and least shame. One of the greatest superpowers of good private schools is a long wait list of applicants that let them tell not just troublemakers, but anyone not on-board and cooperative with their approach, to get bent.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    not at the district/state/federal level, unfortunately. These DoE bureacrats in DC (and lawmakers) send their kids to private schools, while over-regulate public schools with nonsense and grift. Regular public school principal has very limited arsenal of tools he can do to meet parents' needs, unfortunately. its like you can only complain to McDonald's store manager, but McDonalds shareholders dont give a damn about your complaints, unless you take your business elsewhere - and with public schools you cannot take your business elsewhere. Taxes always go to public schools. and through teacher's unions regulatory capture and lobby they always make sure the grift continues.

jgeada 2y ago

Private school vouchers are the worst idea ever. How's removing yet more funding for public schools supposed to be an answer to public schools don't have enough funding? As the funny paraphrasing goes (https://x.com/teedjvt/status/1685251077753430016 https://x.com/teedjvt/status/1685251077753430016) "I don't really like the city parks. I want to join a country club so my kid doesn't have to play with 'those' kids and I want the city parks system to pay for my membership"

slt2021 2y ago
public school system is full of grift, politically appointed and allocated resources, and zero accountability. if you face inefficient system that cannot manage resources - you cannot pour more resources and expect better results. as a proof you can look at Chicago, DC and Baltimore school systems that have the highest per capita spend and the lowest academic achievement metrics. we just need to provide parents an option to opt-out of crooked system
- jgeada 2y ago
  Nobody forces you to put your kids in public schools. But just like other taxes you don’t get to opt out of paying and you don’t get to take your money back.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    well the voucher system allows me to opt out of supporting this corrupt system with my taxes.
    - jgeada 2y ago
      How about the pentagon, or homeland security, or … Why are you picking on the fractional pennies in the budget and letting the millions go out the door? The system is corrupt precisely because people with influence are allowed to opt out & simultaneously benefit.