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> People who go to a museum and throw paint at a work of art (which is protected behind glass) are routinely condemned and sent to jail. They're condemned beca

> People who go to a museum and throw paint at a work of art (which is protected behind glass) are routinely condemned and sent to jail. They're condemned because their way of protesting is worthless. Protesting only works if it either inconveniences people enough to trigger action or if it targets the people actually responsible. If they truly believed that climate change was a critical issue, then they should take a page from how union strikes used to work.

bbor 2y ago
The movement was characterized by nonviolent mass protests and civil disobedience following highly publicized events such as the lynching of Emmett Till. These included boycotts such as the Montgomery bus boycott, "sit-ins" in Greensboro and Nashville, a series of protests during the Birmingham campaign, and a march from Selma to Montgomery. Eh, none of that seems to fall into either of the buckets you describe, other than maybe sit-ins "targeting" racist owners of restaurants. Plus, I know this is annoying but... source? Any data backing that claim? Re:JustStopOil, they also regularly target banks and private jets. It's just that those protests get much less attention in the press, and draw harsher criminal punishments. How else do you make progress on changing laws other than convincing voters that it's a problem? Assuming we can't just do what the US did for civil rights and rely on an unusually powerful judiciary to save the day via anti-democratic fiat ;)
- fzeroracer 2y ago
  > Eh, none of that seems to fall into either of the buckets you describe, other than maybe sit-ins "targeting" racist owners of restaurants. Plus, I know this is annoying but... source? Any data backing that claim? You do realize that said protest caused mass inconvenience, right? It was upending a lot of the racist norms at the time which in turn triggered waves of violence against black protesters which is what started the ball rolling. Said waves of violence also lead to the creation of the Black Panthers which actively scared many parts of the government at the time.
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    This is exactly Just Stop Oil's strategy and it's working.
- hodgesrm 2y ago
  The Montgomery bus boycott specifically targeted racist laws on segregation on public buses. [0] I don't see how you can get much more specific than that. I think there's a better argument around the approach of Act Up, which focused attention on AIDS. [1] Many people were offended by their tactics, which were directed (again) at specific people, organizations, and media who were relevant to the topic. They were very effective. They targeted the root cause. [0] https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/montgomery-bus-boycott https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/montgomery-bus-boycott [1] https://www.britannica.com/topic/ACT-UP https://www.britannica.com/topic/ACT-UP
anigbrowl 2y ago
This is one way of inconveniencing people. Road closures are another way. Like many protest tactics, it doesn't bring about change, until it does. The Just Stop Oil protesters are using an 'earned media' strategy that has proven successful for decades. Publicity stunts draw attention, and even negative attention (in the short term) often yields dividends over the long term.
- fzeroracer 2y ago
  Who are they inconveniencing? Who are they making reconsider their stance? What are their explicit demands? A protest needs a target audience, a target and a set of demands. They have none of the above. Occupy Wall Street for example had two of the three, but ultimately failed in most of its goals because it didn't have a concrete demand. And that was an example of a protest on a far larger scale.
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    They are inconveniencing people who work in and visit museums, people who use motorways, car dealers and so on. They're hoping to force change in government policies. This is obviously not happened yet, though they claim a success in halting the issue of new oil and gas exploration licenses in UK territorial waters. I think their explicit demands are extremely obvious, right there in the name of the organization 'Just Stop Oil.' A visit to their website (cryptically named https://juststopoil.org https://juststopoil.org) lays out 3 simple demands: Demand 1: No New Oil and Gas Licences – WON! Demand 2: Just Stop Oil by 2030. We need a Fossil Fuel Treaty. Amazingly, they have a whole page on the website which discusses these in greater detail. In all honesty, I find it hard to believe you are as mystified as your post suggests.

bbor 2y ago

The movement was characterized by nonviolent mass protests and civil disobedience following highly publicized events such as the lynching of Emmett Till. These included boycotts such as the Montgomery bus boycott, "sit-ins" in Greensboro and Nashville, a series of protests during the Birmingham campaign, and a march from Selma to Montgomery. Eh, none of that seems to fall into either of the buckets you describe, other than maybe sit-ins "targeting" racist owners of restaurants. Plus, I know this is annoying but... source? Any data backing that claim? Re:JustStopOil, they also regularly target banks and private jets. It's just that those protests get much less attention in the press, and draw harsher criminal punishments. How else do you make progress on changing laws other than convincing voters that it's a problem? Assuming we can't just do what the US did for civil rights and rely on an unusually powerful judiciary to save the day via anti-democratic fiat ;)

fzeroracer 2y ago
> Eh, none of that seems to fall into either of the buckets you describe, other than maybe sit-ins "targeting" racist owners of restaurants. Plus, I know this is annoying but... source? Any data backing that claim? You do realize that said protest caused mass inconvenience, right? It was upending a lot of the racist norms at the time which in turn triggered waves of violence against black protesters which is what started the ball rolling. Said waves of violence also lead to the creation of the Black Panthers which actively scared many parts of the government at the time.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  This is exactly Just Stop Oil's strategy and it's working.
hodgesrm 2y ago
The Montgomery bus boycott specifically targeted racist laws on segregation on public buses. [0] I don't see how you can get much more specific than that. I think there's a better argument around the approach of Act Up, which focused attention on AIDS. [1] Many people were offended by their tactics, which were directed (again) at specific people, organizations, and media who were relevant to the topic. They were very effective. They targeted the root cause. [0] https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/montgomery-bus-boycott https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/montgomery-bus-boycott [1] https://www.britannica.com/topic/ACT-UP https://www.britannica.com/topic/ACT-UP

anigbrowl 2y ago

This is one way of inconveniencing people. Road closures are another way. Like many protest tactics, it doesn't bring about change, until it does. The Just Stop Oil protesters are using an 'earned media' strategy that has proven successful for decades. Publicity stunts draw attention, and even negative attention (in the short term) often yields dividends over the long term.

fzeroracer 2y ago
Who are they inconveniencing? Who are they making reconsider their stance? What are their explicit demands? A protest needs a target audience, a target and a set of demands. They have none of the above. Occupy Wall Street for example had two of the three, but ultimately failed in most of its goals because it didn't have a concrete demand. And that was an example of a protest on a far larger scale.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  They are inconveniencing people who work in and visit museums, people who use motorways, car dealers and so on. They're hoping to force change in government policies. This is obviously not happened yet, though they claim a success in halting the issue of new oil and gas exploration licenses in UK territorial waters. I think their explicit demands are extremely obvious, right there in the name of the organization 'Just Stop Oil.' A visit to their website (cryptically named https://juststopoil.org https://juststopoil.org) lays out 3 simple demands: Demand 1: No New Oil and Gas Licences – WON! Demand 2: Just Stop Oil by 2030. We need a Fossil Fuel Treaty. Amazingly, they have a whole page on the website which discusses these in greater detail. In all honesty, I find it hard to believe you are as mystified as your post suggests.