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Yeah, nukes were almost a survival necessity for apartheid South Africa, weapons were necessary for white supremacists in US to continue killing any black peopl

Yeah, nukes were almost a survival necessity for apartheid South Africa, weapons were necessary for white supremacists in US to continue killing any black people that demanded equal rights. A country that continues to reject a peace treaty being offered by dozens of its neighbors, refuses to return the occupied land to its neighbors (for example, Syria's Golan Heights, Lebanon's land, not to talk of the Palestinian occupied land) surely needs nukes or a visit to the shrink. Look up the resolution that is brought up by Arab countries every year since 1980 or so, every year the whole world is on one side, and two countries on the other side (Israel, US, occasionally joined by Australia, Canada, Micronesia, Palau Islands etc). http://www.google.com/search?q=peaceful+settlement+of+the+palestine+question http://www.google.com/search?q=peaceful+settlement+of+the+pa... http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/resolving-the-israel-palestine-conflict-what-we-can-learn-from-gandhi/ http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/resolving-the-israel-palest... Year Vote [Yes-No-Abstained] Negative votes cast by… 1997 155-2-3 Israel, United States 1998 154-2-3 Israel, United States ... 2006 157-7-10 Israel, United States , Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau 2007 161-7-5 Israel, United States , Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau http://www.google.com/search?q=south+africa+nukes+israel http://www.google.com/search?q=south+africa+nukes+israel "Additionally, the Palestinian refugees of 1947 have all lived in other countries for 3 generations now. Having the "refugee" status persist through the generations is without precedent... If Israel allowed the descendants to enter ("Return" is really an inaccurate word choice given that most of them were never in Israel) it would destroy it." Oh yeah, just like in South Africa giving equal rights to those within Israel/Palestine would destroy it, so keep denying the right of return to natives, and keep bringing in Jews only. Build more nukes rather than give equal rights, sounds like a plan. Just ask the South Africans who say that Israel is worse than apartheid South Africa because in SA they weren't using helicopters and F-16s to bomb the blacks. www.google.com/search?q=desmond+tutu+israel+worse+than+apartheid Let me make sure you understand what you are saying, you are saying that the Jews of Europe, or North Africa or Australia who never lived in historic Palestine, whose ancestors never lived in historic Palestine in 1000+ years, they have the right to "return" to Israel/Palestine but those who were kicked out in 1948 and those who still have deeds and the keys to their homes do not have the right to return to where they were born or their parents were born? Are you not aware that any person with no link to Palestine/Israel can convert to Judaism and get instant citizenship of Israel and immigrate there based on the right of "return"? Are you saying that a converted Jewish person has more right to "return" to a Jewish-only settlement (i.e. the settlements which are being built on 22% of the remaining Palestine which was occupied in 1967, not the Israel proper which was occupied in 1948)? And that the non-Jews of occupied Palestinian territories and of Israel proper are justifiably kicked out of their homes? Forget about the 750,000 natives that were kicked out in 1948 and their descendants, have you ever heard about the hundreds of thousands of native Palestinians whose residency has been cancelled since 1967 occupation began? http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-admits-it-revoked-residency-rights-of-a-quarter-million-palestinians.premium-1.435778 http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-admits-... "Israel stripped more than 100,000 residents of Gaza and some 140,000 residents of the West Bank of their residency rights during the 27 years between its conquest of the territories in 1967 and the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994." http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/anglo-file/former-thug-who-found-judaism-hopes-to-be-first-african-american-in-the-knesset-1.362915 http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/anglo-file/former-thug-who-fo... "Marcus Hardie grew up in an African-American community in Los Angeles, where his nickname was "American Thug." "I was a tough gangster," he says. But after a religious awakening that brought him to Judaism and eventually led him to immigrate to Israel, his street name changed to "American Faith."" I am not sure if you are a victim of the hasbara propaganda or if you're part of it, but either way you should read what Israel has been doing before you justify its actions. http://electronicintifada.net/blog/ali-abunimah/israels-pretty-face-how-national-union-israeli-students-does-governments http://electronicintifada.net/blog/ali-abunimah/israels-pret... http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-is-more-focused-on-hasbara-than-it-is-on-policy-1.415977 http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-is-more-foc... http://electronicintifada.net/blog/ali-abunimah/israeli-students-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook http://electronicintifada.net/blog/ali-abunimah/israeli-stud... "The National Union of Israeli Students (NUIS) has become a full-time partner in the Israeli government’s efforts to spread its propaganda online and on college campuses around the world. NUIS has launched a program to pay Israeli university students $2,000 to spread pro-Israel propaganda online for 5 hours per week from the “comfort of home.”" http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/peled-the-only-way-forward-is-transformation-of-a-racist-apartheid-state-into-a-democracy.html http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/peled-the-only-way-forward-is-... Peled: The only way forward is ‘transformation’ of a racist apartheid state into a democracy

Peaker 14y ago
I am an Israeli - and am quite disheartened that you are bringing /r/worldnews style comments to HN. Let's keep it focused and avoid the useless flame wars, shall we? Whether you agree with Israel's actions or not, it needs its nukes to survive and Iran does not. The conflict is two-sided. Israel is responsible for a lot of unacceptable actions, as are each of its neighbors. Singling Israel out is not honest and is in fact a form propaganda. Jews are not returning to Israel -- they are being welcomed in Israel, in an act of voluntary consent between the two sides. The whole purpose of Israel was creating a refuge for Jews from around the world, because it became historically clear that Jews need it. I don't think in 2012 we should still be "solving" the refugees crisis of the 1940's. They should have been accepted into their host countries long ago. Instead, they live without rights and under apartheid in Lebanon, Syria and other Arab countries. Those that immigrated to Western countries did get their full citizenship rights. I agree Israel should end the occupation and return to 1967 lines (and agreements about land swaps for large settlement blocs are probably possible). And I agree nobody should be kicked from their homes.
- accountswu 14y ago
  Peaker, I brought up Egypt, Israel, Yemen and other dictatorships and I did not intend to start a flame war. I have no argument with "all Jews" or "all Israelis" and I admire that you oppose evicting people and you support at least some solution even if it is a two state solution that gives the non-Jews the remaining 22% of the land that was occupied in 1967, that would be a good start. "The conflict is two-sided." The South African conflict was a two-sided conflict and so was the American Civil rights struggle. In case of Israel I don't think any Palestinian military is occupying Israeli civilian population, I don't think Palestinians are denying food to enter Israel, I don't think Palestinians are shooting Israeli fishermen in Israeli waters, or shooting pro-Israelis in International waters, it's Israel that's doing all of that to Palestinians. One side is the occupying power and the other is occupied. "The whole purpose of Israel was creating a refuge for Jews from around the world, because it became historically clear that Jews need it." It did not have to be at the cost of Palestinians. In late 1800s the Jewish population of Palestine was less than 3%, even as late as 1914 the Jewish population was only 8%, in 1948 it was 34% and that population kicked out 750,000 of the local population (about 80% of the total Palestinian population) and declared Israel on 78% of the land. Here's a hardcore Zionist Israel Zangwill in 1905: "Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us." (Righteous Victims, p. 140 & Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7-10) "Singling Israel out is not honest and is in fact a form propaganda." I did not single out Israel, I mentioned about half a dozen names. No one here justified Saudi, Yemeni or Bahraini repression, why are you singling out justifying Israeli repression? I don't like $1.3+ billion of my tax dollars being sent to Egyptian dictators nor $3+ billion of my tax dollars to Israeli occupation and apartheid, nor the weapons to Bahraini apartheid, I'm not singling out Israel. Even if someone is more vocal against Israel, you should know why it is so, Israeli is getting more US taxpayer money and indirect subsidies than all other countries of the world combined (the direct aid alone is more than what we give to entire Latin America and Sub-Saharan Africa, given the GDP per capita of Israel, we should be outraged at that military aid Israel or Egypt or Bahrain are getting).

Peaker 14y ago

I am an Israeli - and am quite disheartened that you are bringing /r/worldnews style comments to HN. Let's keep it focused and avoid the useless flame wars, shall we? Whether you agree with Israel's actions or not, it needs its nukes to survive and Iran does not. The conflict is two-sided. Israel is responsible for a lot of unacceptable actions, as are each of its neighbors. Singling Israel out is not honest and is in fact a form propaganda. Jews are not returning to Israel -- they are being welcomed in Israel, in an act of voluntary consent between the two sides. The whole purpose of Israel was creating a refuge for Jews from around the world, because it became historically clear that Jews need it. I don't think in 2012 we should still be "solving" the refugees crisis of the 1940's. They should have been accepted into their host countries long ago. Instead, they live without rights and under apartheid in Lebanon, Syria and other Arab countries. Those that immigrated to Western countries did get their full citizenship rights. I agree Israel should end the occupation and return to 1967 lines (and agreements about land swaps for large settlement blocs are probably possible). And I agree nobody should be kicked from their homes.

accountswu 14y ago
Peaker, I brought up Egypt, Israel, Yemen and other dictatorships and I did not intend to start a flame war. I have no argument with "all Jews" or "all Israelis" and I admire that you oppose evicting people and you support at least some solution even if it is a two state solution that gives the non-Jews the remaining 22% of the land that was occupied in 1967, that would be a good start. "The conflict is two-sided." The South African conflict was a two-sided conflict and so was the American Civil rights struggle. In case of Israel I don't think any Palestinian military is occupying Israeli civilian population, I don't think Palestinians are denying food to enter Israel, I don't think Palestinians are shooting Israeli fishermen in Israeli waters, or shooting pro-Israelis in International waters, it's Israel that's doing all of that to Palestinians. One side is the occupying power and the other is occupied. "The whole purpose of Israel was creating a refuge for Jews from around the world, because it became historically clear that Jews need it." It did not have to be at the cost of Palestinians. In late 1800s the Jewish population of Palestine was less than 3%, even as late as 1914 the Jewish population was only 8%, in 1948 it was 34% and that population kicked out 750,000 of the local population (about 80% of the total Palestinian population) and declared Israel on 78% of the land. Here's a hardcore Zionist Israel Zangwill in 1905: "Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us." (Righteous Victims, p. 140 & Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7-10) "Singling Israel out is not honest and is in fact a form propaganda." I did not single out Israel, I mentioned about half a dozen names. No one here justified Saudi, Yemeni or Bahraini repression, why are you singling out justifying Israeli repression? I don't like $1.3+ billion of my tax dollars being sent to Egyptian dictators nor $3+ billion of my tax dollars to Israeli occupation and apartheid, nor the weapons to Bahraini apartheid, I'm not singling out Israel. Even if someone is more vocal against Israel, you should know why it is so, Israeli is getting more US taxpayer money and indirect subsidies than all other countries of the world combined (the direct aid alone is more than what we give to entire Latin America and Sub-Saharan Africa, given the GDP per capita of Israel, we should be outraged at that military aid Israel or Egypt or Bahrain are getting).