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This seems like a pretty big deal. I want to like CloudFlare over DO/AWS. I like their DevX focus too -- I could see issues if devs can't get into the abstract

by tomrod 2y ago

This seems like a pretty big deal. I want to like CloudFlare over DO/AWS. I like their DevX focus too -- I could see issues if devs can't get into the abstractions though. Any red flags folks would stake regarding CF? I know they are widely used but not sure where the gotchas are.

ec109685 2y ago
Their solution isn’t GA yet. For headless browsers, the latency benefits of “container anywhere” seems high. For things like AI inference, running on the edge seems way less beneficial than running on the cheapest location possible which would be larger regional data centers.
- hinkley 2y ago
  One would hope that “larger regional data centers” are not that far from The Edge. But the problem isn’t physics or the speed of light, it’s operational. The operational excellence required to have every successful Internet company manage deployments to a dozen regions just isn’t there. Most of us struggle with three, my last gig tried to do two, which isn’t economical because you always try to handle one region going dark which means you need at least 200% capacity, where 3 data centers only need 150 + ??%, and 4 need 133 + ??%. It has all of the consistency problems of n > 1 and few if any of the advantages. We need more help from the CDNs of the world to run compute heavy operations at the edge. And if they choose to send them 10-20ms away to a beefier data center I think that’s probably fine. Just don’t make us have to have the sort of operational discipline that requires.
  - ec109685 2y ago
    Given how slow AI inference is (and for training it doesn't matter at all), the advantage of it being a few milliseconds closer to the user is greatly diminished. The latency to egress to a regional data center is inconsequential. Good point about at the very least not exposing placement to customers. That is a definite win.
    - DrStartup 2y ago
      We’re gonna have so much local inference available.
wmf 2y ago
Is Cloudflare the one that goes from free to "call for pricing" ($100K+) at the drop of a hat?
- jgrahamc 2y ago
  https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-commitment-to-free/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-commitment-to-free/
  - mkl 2y ago
    The https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/overview/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/overview/ link in that article 404s. Looks like it should be https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/?
    - jgrahamc 2y ago
      I'll get that fixed. Thanks for reporting it.
- ignoramous 2y ago
  One data point but, one among our toy services has been pushing 30TB/mo to 60TB/mo for over a year now, and we haven't got the call: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39521228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39521228
  - trallnag 2y ago
    Can you share what kind of toy is shuffling around so much data?
    - ignoramous 2y ago
      https://x.com/rethinkdns/status/1840224431773188125 https://x.com/rethinkdns/status/1840224431773188125 / https://archive.md/9zkIF https://archive.md/9zkIF
srockets 2y ago
Won't apply to everyone (most?), but some compliance assurances your customers may require can't be fulfilled by Cloudflare. And personally, I would hope their laissez faire attitude towards protecting hate speech should damage their business, but I suspect most people not targeted by such just don't give a damn.
- jgrahamc 2y ago
  but some compliance assurances your customers may require can't be fulfilled by Cloudflare. Such as? See: https://www.cloudflare.com/trust-hub/compliance-resources/ https://www.cloudflare.com/trust-hub/compliance-resources/
- thefounder 2y ago
  What’s hate speech to you is free speech to someone else.
  - tomrod 2y ago
    That's not a real distinction, pseudo-koan aside.
  - srockets 2y ago
    No, hate speech is hate speech. If it’s free speech to you, then you’re exactly in the group of people I’d rather not sharing infrastructure, or anything else with.

by tomrod 2y ago

ec109685 2y ago

Their solution isn’t GA yet. For headless browsers, the latency benefits of “container anywhere” seems high. For things like AI inference, running on the edge seems way less beneficial than running on the cheapest location possible which would be larger regional data centers.

hinkley 2y ago
One would hope that “larger regional data centers” are not that far from The Edge. But the problem isn’t physics or the speed of light, it’s operational. The operational excellence required to have every successful Internet company manage deployments to a dozen regions just isn’t there. Most of us struggle with three, my last gig tried to do two, which isn’t economical because you always try to handle one region going dark which means you need at least 200% capacity, where 3 data centers only need 150 + ??%, and 4 need 133 + ??%. It has all of the consistency problems of n > 1 and few if any of the advantages. We need more help from the CDNs of the world to run compute heavy operations at the edge. And if they choose to send them 10-20ms away to a beefier data center I think that’s probably fine. Just don’t make us have to have the sort of operational discipline that requires.
- ec109685 2y ago
  Given how slow AI inference is (and for training it doesn't matter at all), the advantage of it being a few milliseconds closer to the user is greatly diminished. The latency to egress to a regional data center is inconsequential. Good point about at the very least not exposing placement to customers. That is a definite win.
  - DrStartup 2y ago
    We’re gonna have so much local inference available.

wmf 2y ago

Is Cloudflare the one that goes from free to "call for pricing" ($100K+) at the drop of a hat?

jgrahamc 2y ago
https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-commitment-to-free/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-commitment-to-free/
- mkl 2y ago
  The https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/overview/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/overview/ link in that article 404s. Looks like it should be https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/calls/turn/?
  - jgrahamc 2y ago
    I'll get that fixed. Thanks for reporting it.
ignoramous 2y ago
One data point but, one among our toy services has been pushing 30TB/mo to 60TB/mo for over a year now, and we haven't got the call: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39521228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39521228
- trallnag 2y ago
  Can you share what kind of toy is shuffling around so much data?
  - ignoramous 2y ago
    https://x.com/rethinkdns/status/1840224431773188125 https://x.com/rethinkdns/status/1840224431773188125 / https://archive.md/9zkIF https://archive.md/9zkIF

srockets 2y ago

Won't apply to everyone (most?), but some compliance assurances your customers may require can't be fulfilled by Cloudflare. And personally, I would hope their laissez faire attitude towards protecting hate speech should damage their business, but I suspect most people not targeted by such just don't give a damn.

jgrahamc 2y ago
but some compliance assurances your customers may require can't be fulfilled by Cloudflare. Such as? See: https://www.cloudflare.com/trust-hub/compliance-resources/ https://www.cloudflare.com/trust-hub/compliance-resources/
thefounder 2y ago
What’s hate speech to you is free speech to someone else.
- tomrod 2y ago
  That's not a real distinction, pseudo-koan aside.
- srockets 2y ago
  No, hate speech is hate speech. If it’s free speech to you, then you’re exactly in the group of people I’d rather not sharing infrastructure, or anything else with.