4 ms·

Minix 3 (2014)

96 points by droideqa 2y ago

teddyh 2y ago
Now mostly used in the Intel Management Engine.
- mrweasel 2y ago
  Does anyone know why Intel would pick Minix? I can understand not picking Linux, from a licencing perspective, but surely some BSD would have been easier to hire for and more likely to have a modern upstream.
  - teddyh 2y ago
    Intel may have needed some of Minix’ unique (for the time) features, like its microkernel architecture and seamless live updates of system components.
  - Rochus 2y ago
    Actually I would be interested to see an official confirmation by Intel that they indeed still use Minix, and which version of it. So far all such claims I'm aware of came from third parties.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  And Pluton uses TockOS, at least is Rust.
henning 2y ago
Dead project?
- marcodiego 2y ago
  Yes.
- boricj 2y ago
  Deader than disco. I seem to reiterate the technical reasons every couple of months or so [1], therefore this time I'll talk more about the management of the project, although I was not a member of the core team so it's mostly observation from the outside in. Historically, the operating system was largely used as a research platform for writing papers and theses [2]. Unfortunately, research code isn't production-grade code, so despite a lot of effort done to mainline some of it, not all of it was merged. Also, while there was a steady supply of new students to work on MINIX3, there was also a steady turnover because students who finish their studies generally move on to new things. With the looming retirement of Andrew Tanenbaum in 2014, the project pivoted focus to embedded systems, due to the technical strengths and weaknesses of the system at that time. The ARM port was done around that time as part of it to leverage small board computers. Eventually, the funding dried up and the project slowed to a standstill, largely I believe due to an unsustainable maintenance burden caused by accumulated tech debt over decades that the remaining development manpower (all contributors working on their free time, including myself) couldn't address. MINIX3 still has some unique cool stuff to this day like seamless live updates of system components, but for me it's too shackled by its past to have a future. It'd be a lot of work to bring it up to modern standards and personally by the time I'd be done with that I think ought to be done, it wouldn't look like MINIX anymore. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40762110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40762110 [2] https://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=publications https://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=publications
  - chipdart 2y ago
    > Deader than disco. The real question is whether the project is deader than HURD.
    - ChocolateGod 2y ago
      easy win, HURD was never alive in the first place to be dead
    - boricj 2y ago
      Given that HURD has a steady trickle of commits and an ongoing quarterly status update on their website, it's more alive than MINIX3 currently is.
linsomniac 2y ago
"News" page last update: March 2016. Maybe need a "(2014)" on the title, looks like that was when 3.3.0 was released.
- dang 2y ago
  Ok, added. Thanks!
lacoolj 2y ago
not sure what makes this "news" but it did give me some nostalgia in the "Getting Started" page: > Now you are ready to start the installation procedure. When installing to the bare computer, put the CD-ROM in the drive, close the door and shut the computer down.
jmorenoamor 2y ago
I remember having to implement partial file locking in Minix as an assignment in college. Good times,
- jschulenklopper 2y ago
  Same here. I adapted the file system to honor user quota, and changed the kernel to support priority process scheduling. We also needed to implemented a change in the memory management part... that ironically I cannot remember anymore.
  - Rygian 2y ago
    It was LRU page eviction, that's why you don't remember :-)
dang 2y ago
Related. Others? Minix development has been abandoned? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36064961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36064961 - May 2023 (109 comments) Ask HN: Is Minix dead? No commits since 2018 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26451540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26451540 - March 2021 (142 comments) Minix 3.3.0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8324578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8324578 - Sept 2014 (172 comments) Minix 3.2.1 Released - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5272980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5272980 - Feb 2013 (24 comments)

Minix 3 (2014)

96 points by droideqa 2y ago

teddyh 2y ago

Now mostly used in the Intel Management Engine.

mrweasel 2y ago
Does anyone know why Intel would pick Minix? I can understand not picking Linux, from a licencing perspective, but surely some BSD would have been easier to hire for and more likely to have a modern upstream.
- teddyh 2y ago
  Intel may have needed some of Minix’ unique (for the time) features, like its microkernel architecture and seamless live updates of system components.
- Rochus 2y ago
  Actually I would be interested to see an official confirmation by Intel that they indeed still use Minix, and which version of it. So far all such claims I'm aware of came from third parties.
pjmlp 2y ago
And Pluton uses TockOS, at least is Rust.

henning 2y ago

Dead project?

marcodiego 2y ago
Yes.
boricj 2y ago
Deader than disco. I seem to reiterate the technical reasons every couple of months or so [1], therefore this time I'll talk more about the management of the project, although I was not a member of the core team so it's mostly observation from the outside in. Historically, the operating system was largely used as a research platform for writing papers and theses [2]. Unfortunately, research code isn't production-grade code, so despite a lot of effort done to mainline some of it, not all of it was merged. Also, while there was a steady supply of new students to work on MINIX3, there was also a steady turnover because students who finish their studies generally move on to new things. With the looming retirement of Andrew Tanenbaum in 2014, the project pivoted focus to embedded systems, due to the technical strengths and weaknesses of the system at that time. The ARM port was done around that time as part of it to leverage small board computers. Eventually, the funding dried up and the project slowed to a standstill, largely I believe due to an unsustainable maintenance burden caused by accumulated tech debt over decades that the remaining development manpower (all contributors working on their free time, including myself) couldn't address. MINIX3 still has some unique cool stuff to this day like seamless live updates of system components, but for me it's too shackled by its past to have a future. It'd be a lot of work to bring it up to modern standards and personally by the time I'd be done with that I think ought to be done, it wouldn't look like MINIX anymore. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40762110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40762110 [2] https://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=publications https://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=publications
- chipdart 2y ago
  > Deader than disco. The real question is whether the project is deader than HURD.
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    easy win, HURD was never alive in the first place to be dead
  - boricj 2y ago
    Given that HURD has a steady trickle of commits and an ongoing quarterly status update on their website, it's more alive than MINIX3 currently is.

linsomniac 2y ago

"News" page last update: March 2016. Maybe need a "(2014)" on the title, looks like that was when 3.3.0 was released.

dang 2y ago
Ok, added. Thanks!

lacoolj 2y ago

not sure what makes this "news" but it did give me some nostalgia in the "Getting Started" page: > Now you are ready to start the installation procedure. When installing to the bare computer, put the CD-ROM in the drive, close the door and shut the computer down.

jmorenoamor 2y ago

I remember having to implement partial file locking in Minix as an assignment in college. Good times,

jschulenklopper 2y ago
Same here. I adapted the file system to honor user quota, and changed the kernel to support priority process scheduling. We also needed to implemented a change in the memory management part... that ironically I cannot remember anymore.
- Rygian 2y ago
  It was LRU page eviction, that's why you don't remember :-)

dang 2y ago

Related. Others? Minix development has been abandoned? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36064961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36064961 - May 2023 (109 comments) Ask HN: Is Minix dead? No commits since 2018 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26451540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26451540 - March 2021 (142 comments) Minix 3.3.0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8324578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8324578 - Sept 2014 (172 comments) Minix 3.2.1 Released - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5272980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5272980 - Feb 2013 (24 comments)