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To clarify, is it still a terrorist regime when it's not actually targeting civilians, but only by coincidence civilians and civilian infrastructure are close t

To clarify, is it still a terrorist regime when it's not actually targeting civilians, but only by coincidence civilians and civilian infrastructure are close to the regime's military targets?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
airstrike 2y ago
Traditionally, no. Terrorism is the deliberate targeting of civilians
toss1 2y ago
When the targets, as a matter of publicly stated policy, engage in war crimes of using human shields to both attack civilians and defend themselves, store war munitions and setup command centers in hospitals, schools, etc., and when the country defends itself against those war crimes adhering to legal proportionality rules, then no. If it is actual indiscriminate bombing or targeting of civilian targets not used in war crimes, human shields, storing military equipment & munitions, command& control, etc., then yes.
- immibis 2y ago
  What's the point of using human shields if your enemy isn't averse to killing the shields at all?
  - toss1 2y ago
    Bad publicity against your enemy; it's literally the stated policy of Hamas to make more Palestinian "martyrs". It gets others to scream "genocide", causrs more global division, etc. And, in fact, they are averse to killing the human shields, just not absolutely averse (and definitely less averse after you go on murder, raoe, & kidnapping sprees at music festivals, etc).
    - immibis 2y ago
      So if the enemy acts exactly like them, they suddenly get even worse morals? What happened to "turnabout is fair play"?
skinkestek 2y ago
No. This is rather clearly described in the laws of war. If militants hides behind civilians or use civilians as shields for military infrastructure, the lives of the civilians is their responsibility. This might seem counterintuitive at first but is perfectly obvious once you stop and think: If it was legal to use civilians as human shields and it would shield your military infrastructure everyone would do it. Because the laws of the war is so clear about it nobody does it except Hamas and they only do it because they know western media and commentators will blame Israel despite international laws being very very clear in this matter.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Because the laws of the war is so clear about it nobody does it except Hamas Everyone does it. We just call it espionage. That said, when a Western espionage mission goes awry and it results in collateral damage, the government doing the fuckery is properly blamed.
  - skinkestek 2y ago
    Not sure if we are talking about the same thing? I'm talking about Hamas literally a) putting missile ramps and ammo depots in busy areas b) preventing civilians from leaving after Israel has dropped leaflets, called phones in the area and dropped noise bombs I don't see how the west does anything similar.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Sure, Hamas dials the tactic to eleven. Point is hiding merchant raiders [1] and clandestine activities (e.g. the CIA's fake vaccine campaign to verify Bin Laden [2]) operate on the same principle. And when those go wrong, we properly blame the people using civilians for cover. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_raider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_raider [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vacc...
- immibis 2y ago

To clarify, is it still a terrorist regime when it's not actually targeting civilians, but only by coincidence civilians and civilian infrastructure are close to the regime's military targets?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

airstrike 2y ago

Traditionally, no. Terrorism is the deliberate targeting of civilians

toss1 2y ago

When the targets, as a matter of publicly stated policy, engage in war crimes of using human shields to both attack civilians and defend themselves, store war munitions and setup command centers in hospitals, schools, etc., and when the country defends itself against those war crimes adhering to legal proportionality rules, then no. If it is actual indiscriminate bombing or targeting of civilian targets not used in war crimes, human shields, storing military equipment & munitions, command& control, etc., then yes.

immibis 2y ago
What's the point of using human shields if your enemy isn't averse to killing the shields at all?
- toss1 2y ago
  Bad publicity against your enemy; it's literally the stated policy of Hamas to make more Palestinian "martyrs". It gets others to scream "genocide", causrs more global division, etc. And, in fact, they are averse to killing the human shields, just not absolutely averse (and definitely less averse after you go on murder, raoe, & kidnapping sprees at music festivals, etc).
  - immibis 2y ago
    So if the enemy acts exactly like them, they suddenly get even worse morals? What happened to "turnabout is fair play"?

skinkestek 2y ago

No. This is rather clearly described in the laws of war. If militants hides behind civilians or use civilians as shields for military infrastructure, the lives of the civilians is their responsibility. This might seem counterintuitive at first but is perfectly obvious once you stop and think: If it was legal to use civilians as human shields and it would shield your military infrastructure everyone would do it. Because the laws of the war is so clear about it nobody does it except Hamas and they only do it because they know western media and commentators will blame Israel despite international laws being very very clear in this matter.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Because the laws of the war is so clear about it nobody does it except Hamas Everyone does it. We just call it espionage. That said, when a Western espionage mission goes awry and it results in collateral damage, the government doing the fuckery is properly blamed.
- skinkestek 2y ago
  Not sure if we are talking about the same thing? I'm talking about Hamas literally a) putting missile ramps and ammo depots in busy areas b) preventing civilians from leaving after Israel has dropped leaflets, called phones in the area and dropped noise bombs I don't see how the west does anything similar.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Sure, Hamas dials the tactic to eleven. Point is hiding merchant raiders [1] and clandestine activities (e.g. the CIA's fake vaccine campaign to verify Bin Laden [2]) operate on the same principle. And when those go wrong, we properly blame the people using civilians for cover. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_raider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_raider [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vacc...
immibis 2y ago