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My real wake-up call was the introductory class in my data science master's program. We spent a whole week learning about all the clever tricks Harrah's data sc

My real wake-up call was the introductory class in my data science master's program. We spent a whole week learning about all the clever tricks Harrah's data scientists found to keep people in the gambling halls. The course's instructor really lionized Harrah's for doing this, and loved to talk about how much profit it made for the company. For my part, I was horrified. I couldn't find a way to see some of these tricks the use as anything but a form of highly evolved confidence artistry. Legal con artistry, sure. But a legal scam is still a scam. Even if the people getting scammed never wise to the scam, it's still a scam. The arguments about tax revenues and suchlike don't make me feel any better about it. All I see in their success is a demonstration that a great many people will happily turn a blind eye to abusive behavior if they believe they can materially benefit from doing so. And, of course, they never do, anyway. The promises of professional con artists that our communities will benefit if we grant them imprimatur for their operations turned out to also be a scam. Con artists pulling a con; quelle surprise!

supahfly_remix 2y ago
This class sounds interesting. Where can I learn more about these techniques? (I'm curious, not planning on using them!)
- bunderbunder 2y ago
  Looks like googling "Harrah's data science" turns up a decent volume of articles. I won't link any in particular here because I haven't read any of them so I don't know which ones are good.
  - supahfly_remix 2y ago
    Thanks! Yes, I was looking for recommended papers/info.
- schlauerfox 2y ago
  Probably here, but might be dry. https://link.springer.com/journal/10899 https://link.springer.com/journal/10899
  - supahfly_remix 2y ago
    Thanks for the link. I wonder if this journal is constrained to observing gambling rather than doing experiments to trying to exacerbate it as Harrah's is doing: "The Journal of Gambling Studies is an interdisciplinary forum for research and discussion of the many and varied aspects of gambling behavior, both controlled and pathological. Coverage extends to the wide range of attendant and resultant problems, including alcoholism, suicide, crime, and a number of other mental health concerns."
- RunSet 2y ago
  "Coercion" by Douglas Rushkoff is somewhat dated but by no means out of date. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/348346/coercion-by-douglas-rushkoff/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/348346/coercion-by-...
burningChrome 2y ago
Its interesting to think many of the techniques the casino's used to keep people gambling going back to the 60's and 70's are the same ones facebook, twitter and youtube all employ now in one way or another today. I had the same reaction you did in your data science class when I took several psychology classes and they talked about the same psychological tricks. You quickly realize how easy it is to manipulate the human brain and by proxy, human behavior. Reminds of the quote from Joshua the computer in War Games: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
- scarby2 2y ago
  Best course I ever took was one on how to counter your own cognitive biases
- stickfigure 2y ago
  If it's so easy... surely you've figured out how to become fabulously wealthy? I'm curious which tricks you use. I am calling bullshit here. There's a popular narrative that we've somehow hacked the code of the human brain and can program people to do anything we want, against their will. Nonsense. The best you can do is move the needle a few percentage points across a statistically large number of humans. This is not something to worry about.
  - AlbertCory 2y ago
    > surely you've figured out how to become fabulously wealthy You mean, by starting a big casino, hiring thousands of people, advertising all over, etc.? A small investment like that? > The best you can do is move the needle a few percentage points across a statistically large number of humans. That may be true, but a "few percentage points" is enough to create enormous profits, if you do what I said above. Giving the house a 54% advantage instead of 51% makes a big, big difference.
    - stickfigure 2y ago
      It's obviously not that easy. Casinos go bankrupt left and right. Hell, one famous former president is responsible for three of them.
docandrew 2y ago
The tax stuff is total bullshit. If it wasn’t the schools in Las Vegas would be the best in the country and the teachers there would be the best paid. They aren’t by a long shot.
- jedberg 2y ago
  My friend is a High School teacher in Las Vegas. He regularly has students tell him that they don't see the point in school because they make more than he does parking cars at the casinos. He tries to point out to them that those tips won't last once they can't run for eight hours a day, but the message is often lost. However, they aren't wrong. They do in fact make about 50% more than he does just working part time on weekends.
wnc3141 2y ago
About tax revenue. We like to think the more you make the more you pay. But using programs like these just turn the most vulnerable into revenue for the state -creating wild conflicts of interest. Additionally these types of revenues tend to replace other sources of funding rather than supplement. Like sports betting I know that lottery players skew low income - making the state effectively tax low income households at a higher rate.
Simon_ORourke 2y ago
> We spent a whole week learning about all the clever tricks Harrah's data scientists found to keep people in the gambling halls. What sort of stuff are they pulling? Like sending down a five dollar cocktail to keep someone spending 20 bucks a hand at the craps table?
- bunderbunder 2y ago
  Among other things, yeah. On an individualized basis. They figure out, for example, how much of a losing streak will get a particular person to leave the table, and how likely they are to keep playing if someone shows up and gives them a free drink as thanks for being a Gold Star VIP or whatever, and how much more money they can expect to lose if you given them that drink, and use all that data to optimize who gets free drinks when. I used to date someone whose father had a rather severe gambling addiction, and this is exactly what kept him coming back. When he talked about it, it was clear that what he was hooked on was the feeling of being a winner. Someone surprising you with a free drink and telling you it's because you're part of an exclusive club for winners gives some people that feeling even when they're objectively losing. And that is the textbook definition confidence artistry: tricking people into thinking you're their special friend as a means to extract money from them.
PhasmaFelis 2y ago
> The course's instructor really lionized Harrah's for doing this, and loved to talk about how much profit it made for the company. I took a marketing class in the course of my CS degree, and my main takeaway was that a lot of marketers are aliens in people suits. Their ethics and priorities are utterly disconnected from anything human. You really start to understand how e.g. IBM could knowingly and cheerfully supply the Nazis with the punchcard hardware they needed to keep the Holocaust running smoothly. The client's satisfaction is the only relevant criterion. "But they're killing millions of people" will be met with the same blank, uncomprehending stare as "But the paint you chose clashes with my sweater."

supahfly_remix 2y ago

This class sounds interesting. Where can I learn more about these techniques? (I'm curious, not planning on using them!)

bunderbunder 2y ago
Looks like googling "Harrah's data science" turns up a decent volume of articles. I won't link any in particular here because I haven't read any of them so I don't know which ones are good.
- supahfly_remix 2y ago
  Thanks! Yes, I was looking for recommended papers/info.
schlauerfox 2y ago
Probably here, but might be dry. https://link.springer.com/journal/10899 https://link.springer.com/journal/10899
- supahfly_remix 2y ago
  Thanks for the link. I wonder if this journal is constrained to observing gambling rather than doing experiments to trying to exacerbate it as Harrah's is doing: "The Journal of Gambling Studies is an interdisciplinary forum for research and discussion of the many and varied aspects of gambling behavior, both controlled and pathological. Coverage extends to the wide range of attendant and resultant problems, including alcoholism, suicide, crime, and a number of other mental health concerns."
RunSet 2y ago
"Coercion" by Douglas Rushkoff is somewhat dated but by no means out of date. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/348346/coercion-by-douglas-rushkoff/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/348346/coercion-by-...

burningChrome 2y ago

Its interesting to think many of the techniques the casino's used to keep people gambling going back to the 60's and 70's are the same ones facebook, twitter and youtube all employ now in one way or another today. I had the same reaction you did in your data science class when I took several psychology classes and they talked about the same psychological tricks. You quickly realize how easy it is to manipulate the human brain and by proxy, human behavior. Reminds of the quote from Joshua the computer in War Games: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

scarby2 2y ago
Best course I ever took was one on how to counter your own cognitive biases
stickfigure 2y ago
If it's so easy... surely you've figured out how to become fabulously wealthy? I'm curious which tricks you use. I am calling bullshit here. There's a popular narrative that we've somehow hacked the code of the human brain and can program people to do anything we want, against their will. Nonsense. The best you can do is move the needle a few percentage points across a statistically large number of humans. This is not something to worry about.
- AlbertCory 2y ago
  > surely you've figured out how to become fabulously wealthy You mean, by starting a big casino, hiring thousands of people, advertising all over, etc.? A small investment like that? > The best you can do is move the needle a few percentage points across a statistically large number of humans. That may be true, but a "few percentage points" is enough to create enormous profits, if you do what I said above. Giving the house a 54% advantage instead of 51% makes a big, big difference.
  - stickfigure 2y ago
    It's obviously not that easy. Casinos go bankrupt left and right. Hell, one famous former president is responsible for three of them.

docandrew 2y ago

The tax stuff is total bullshit. If it wasn’t the schools in Las Vegas would be the best in the country and the teachers there would be the best paid. They aren’t by a long shot.

jedberg 2y ago
My friend is a High School teacher in Las Vegas. He regularly has students tell him that they don't see the point in school because they make more than he does parking cars at the casinos. He tries to point out to them that those tips won't last once they can't run for eight hours a day, but the message is often lost. However, they aren't wrong. They do in fact make about 50% more than he does just working part time on weekends.

wnc3141 2y ago

About tax revenue. We like to think the more you make the more you pay. But using programs like these just turn the most vulnerable into revenue for the state -creating wild conflicts of interest. Additionally these types of revenues tend to replace other sources of funding rather than supplement. Like sports betting I know that lottery players skew low income - making the state effectively tax low income households at a higher rate.

Simon_ORourke 2y ago

> We spent a whole week learning about all the clever tricks Harrah's data scientists found to keep people in the gambling halls. What sort of stuff are they pulling? Like sending down a five dollar cocktail to keep someone spending 20 bucks a hand at the craps table?

bunderbunder 2y ago
Among other things, yeah. On an individualized basis. They figure out, for example, how much of a losing streak will get a particular person to leave the table, and how likely they are to keep playing if someone shows up and gives them a free drink as thanks for being a Gold Star VIP or whatever, and how much more money they can expect to lose if you given them that drink, and use all that data to optimize who gets free drinks when. I used to date someone whose father had a rather severe gambling addiction, and this is exactly what kept him coming back. When he talked about it, it was clear that what he was hooked on was the feeling of being a winner. Someone surprising you with a free drink and telling you it's because you're part of an exclusive club for winners gives some people that feeling even when they're objectively losing. And that is the textbook definition confidence artistry: tricking people into thinking you're their special friend as a means to extract money from them.

PhasmaFelis 2y ago

> The course's instructor really lionized Harrah's for doing this, and loved to talk about how much profit it made for the company. I took a marketing class in the course of my CS degree, and my main takeaway was that a lot of marketers are aliens in people suits. Their ethics and priorities are utterly disconnected from anything human. You really start to understand how e.g. IBM could knowingly and cheerfully supply the Nazis with the punchcard hardware they needed to keep the Holocaust running smoothly. The client's satisfaction is the only relevant criterion. "But they're killing millions of people" will be met with the same blank, uncomprehending stare as "But the paint you chose clashes with my sweater."