13 ms·

Everything you just said can also be said by Walmart or Applebees but they are required to build ramps, custom bathroom stalls, and special parking spots.

by chime 14y ago

Karunamon 14y ago
Ramps and stalls are standard on any construction nowadays, and there's nothing special about disabled parking spots - they're just the ones closest to the entrance with blue lines instead of yellow. This on the other hand.. aiya.
- mhurron 14y ago
  They're standard because of ADA.
- sp332 14y ago
  Ramps and stalls are standard on any construction nowadays, But that wasn't always true. It took legislation and experimentation and a lot of work to change architects' habits. It's second nature now only because we (as a society) forced them to do it all the time.
- chime 14y ago
  > Ramps and stalls are standard on any construction nowadays, and there's nothing special about disabled parking spots - they're just the ones closest to the entrance with blue lines instead of yellow. You just proved my point. Making it a law made it standard in the industry. Disabled parking spots cost more than regular because of the extra markings and signage. Ramps cost most than stairs. Even if the cost is just 1% - 5% more, that cost has to be absorbed by the business owner and over time, businesses have learnt to take that into consideration. Other countries where ADA or equivalent laws do not exist, do not have ramps, special parking spots, or similar accommodations for the disabled. Ramps are not standard there. It is a challenge for my cousin's family in India to take him ANYWHERE because he is in a wheelchair. Some elevators are so small that even the smallest wheelchairs don't fit. Most parks, malls, and other public places usually have no ramps so his wheelchair has to be carried with him in it. ADA makes the lives of disabled individuals and their caretakers better. The question is, does the Internet need an ADA? I myself am split on that. On one hand, I make software to help the disabled communicate but on the other, who wants to be regulated by the Government in their own field?
dfxm12 14y ago
These accommodations are required legally only by "places of public accommodation". Judges will interpret this as they will, but it is certainly arguable that a website does not necessarily fall into this category.
- chime 14y ago
  Does Facebook falls into one of these places? How about CVS website?
- gdubs 14y ago
  You don't think the Internet has become the new public square?
Anechoic 14y ago
Not quite the same thing as none of those items really have an undue cost to the facility - ramps (when needed, a lot of those stores are built level to the parking lot/sidewalk) can be used for the disabled as well as store workers/delivery workers moving heavy items on dollies/hand trucks, custom bathroom stalls are basically just larger stalls, and special parking spots are just normal parking spots that with a slightly different paint job. There's not much extra effort that goes into these items. This move would me more akin to requiring Wal-Mart to attach braille price stickers to every individual item in the store.
- chime 14y ago
  > There's not much extra effort that goes into these items. Special parking spots easily cost 1% more than regular parking spots because of the markings on ground and the metal signage. That fits into the excessive cost range that the original parent post was against. I do like your analogy of braille on every item. I think make something accessible should mean accessible not perfectly suited in the best environment. That is, you should make your site/app accessible to e-readers, not be required to make a whole another custom UI just for e-readers.
  - Anechoic 14y ago
    > Special parking spots easily cost 1% more than regular parking spots because of the markings on ground and the metal signage. Eh, I don't know that it would even be 1% more - for a construction project most of the cost comes from the mobilization of equipment and prep work. For the construction of a parking lot, you have excavation, installation of drainage, installaction of subgrade, paving, curbing, signage, and line painting, all of which take a week of more for a decent sized lot. When it comes time to lay out the HPV sport, the line-spraying and post-hole digging equipment is already there, it's just applied differently. I'd be shocked if it were even a 1% difference. In any event, given that the contingency on construction projects is typically 5% to 10%, so even 1% is insignificant. But we're in the weeds here ;)

Everything you just said can also be said by Walmart or Applebees but they are required to build ramps, custom bathroom stalls, and special parking spots.

by chime 14y ago

Everything you just said can also be said by Walmart or Applebees but they are required to build ramps, custom bathroom stalls, and special parking spots.

Karunamon 14y ago

Ramps and stalls are standard on any construction nowadays, and there's nothing special about disabled parking spots - they're just the ones closest to the entrance with blue lines instead of yellow. This on the other hand.. aiya.

mhurron 14y ago
They're standard because of ADA.
sp332 14y ago
Ramps and stalls are standard on any construction nowadays, But that wasn't always true. It took legislation and experimentation and a lot of work to change architects' habits. It's second nature now only because we (as a society) forced them to do it all the time.
chime 14y ago
> Ramps and stalls are standard on any construction nowadays, and there's nothing special about disabled parking spots - they're just the ones closest to the entrance with blue lines instead of yellow. You just proved my point. Making it a law made it standard in the industry. Disabled parking spots cost more than regular because of the extra markings and signage. Ramps cost most than stairs. Even if the cost is just 1% - 5% more, that cost has to be absorbed by the business owner and over time, businesses have learnt to take that into consideration. Other countries where ADA or equivalent laws do not exist, do not have ramps, special parking spots, or similar accommodations for the disabled. Ramps are not standard there. It is a challenge for my cousin's family in India to take him ANYWHERE because he is in a wheelchair. Some elevators are so small that even the smallest wheelchairs don't fit. Most parks, malls, and other public places usually have no ramps so his wheelchair has to be carried with him in it. ADA makes the lives of disabled individuals and their caretakers better. The question is, does the Internet need an ADA? I myself am split on that. On one hand, I make software to help the disabled communicate but on the other, who wants to be regulated by the Government in their own field?

dfxm12 14y ago

These accommodations are required legally only by "places of public accommodation". Judges will interpret this as they will, but it is certainly arguable that a website does not necessarily fall into this category.

chime 14y ago
Does Facebook falls into one of these places? How about CVS website?
gdubs 14y ago
You don't think the Internet has become the new public square?

Anechoic 14y ago

Not quite the same thing as none of those items really have an undue cost to the facility - ramps (when needed, a lot of those stores are built level to the parking lot/sidewalk) can be used for the disabled as well as store workers/delivery workers moving heavy items on dollies/hand trucks, custom bathroom stalls are basically just larger stalls, and special parking spots are just normal parking spots that with a slightly different paint job. There's not much extra effort that goes into these items. This move would me more akin to requiring Wal-Mart to attach braille price stickers to every individual item in the store.

chime 14y ago
> There's not much extra effort that goes into these items. Special parking spots easily cost 1% more than regular parking spots because of the markings on ground and the metal signage. That fits into the excessive cost range that the original parent post was against. I do like your analogy of braille on every item. I think make something accessible should mean accessible not perfectly suited in the best environment. That is, you should make your site/app accessible to e-readers, not be required to make a whole another custom UI just for e-readers.
- Anechoic 14y ago
  > Special parking spots easily cost 1% more than regular parking spots because of the markings on ground and the metal signage. Eh, I don't know that it would even be 1% more - for a construction project most of the cost comes from the mobilization of equipment and prep work. For the construction of a parking lot, you have excavation, installation of drainage, installaction of subgrade, paving, curbing, signage, and line painting, all of which take a week of more for a decent sized lot. When it comes time to lay out the HPV sport, the line-spraying and post-hole digging equipment is already there, it's just applied differently. I'd be shocked if it were even a 1% difference. In any event, given that the contingency on construction projects is typically 5% to 10%, so even 1% is insignificant. But we're in the weeds here ;)