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idk. about Claude 3.5 but if you remove implicit subventions from the AI/AGI hype then for many such tools the cost to benefit calculation of creating and ope

idk. about Claude 3.5 but if you remove implicit subventions from the AI/AGI hype then for many such tools the cost to benefit calculation of creating and operating will become ... questionable furthermore the places where such tools tend to shine the most often places where the IT industry has somewhat failed, like unnecessary verbose and bothersome to use tools, missing tooling and troublesome code reuse (so you write the same code again and again). And this LLM based tools are not fixing the problem they just kinda hiding it. And that has me worried a bit because it makes it much much less likely for the problem to ever be fixed. Like I think there is a serious chance for this tooling causing the industry to be stuck on a quite sub-par plato for many many years. So while they clearly help, especially if you have to reinvent the wheel for a thousands time, it's hard to look at them favorably.

mewpmewp2 2y ago
Hopefully it will be able to also reduce boilerplate and do reasonable DRY abstractions if repetition becomes too much. E.g. I feel like it should be possible to first blast out a lot of repetitive code and then for LLM to go over all of it and abstract it reasonably, while tests are still passing.
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  Code generator in the editor has been around for ages and serves primarily to maximise boilerplate and minimise DRY. Expecting the opposite from a new code generator will yield disappointment.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    I mean LLM can go through all the files in a source code and find repetitions that can be abstracted. Reorganize files into more appropriate structures etc. It just needs an optimal algorithm to provide optimal context for it.
Demiurge 2y ago
> And that has me worried a bit because it makes it much much less likely for the problem to ever be fixed. How will that ever get solved, in this universe? Look at what C++ does to C, what TypeScript does to JavaScript, what every standard does to the one before. It builds on top, without fixing the bottom, paving over the holes. If AI helps generate sane low level code, maybe it will help you make less buffer overflow mistakes. If AI can help test and design your firewall and network rules, maybe it will help you avoid exposing some holes in your CUPS service. Why not, if we're never getting rid of IP printing or C? Seems like part of the technological progress.
KoolKat23 2y ago
The scaling laws coming to mind. This concern becomes trivial as we scale. Its like worrying that your calculator app running on your phone could be more efficient when adding two numbers.
- dathinab 2y ago
  The problem is that the scaling law goes in two directions, things becoming (potential exponential) cheaper because they are done (produced) a lot and things becoming _(potential exponential) more expensive_ because the scale you try to archive so so much beyond what is sustainable (or in other word the higher the demand for a limited resource becomes the more expensive it becomes). Similar this law isn't really a law for a good reason, it doesn't always work. Not everything gets cheaper (in a relevant amount) at scale.

mewpmewp2 2y ago

Hopefully it will be able to also reduce boilerplate and do reasonable DRY abstractions if repetition becomes too much. E.g. I feel like it should be possible to first blast out a lot of repetitive code and then for LLM to go over all of it and abstract it reasonably, while tests are still passing.

JonChesterfield 2y ago
Code generator in the editor has been around for ages and serves primarily to maximise boilerplate and minimise DRY. Expecting the opposite from a new code generator will yield disappointment.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  I mean LLM can go through all the files in a source code and find repetitions that can be abstracted. Reorganize files into more appropriate structures etc. It just needs an optimal algorithm to provide optimal context for it.

Demiurge 2y ago

> And that has me worried a bit because it makes it much much less likely for the problem to ever be fixed. How will that ever get solved, in this universe? Look at what C++ does to C, what TypeScript does to JavaScript, what every standard does to the one before. It builds on top, without fixing the bottom, paving over the holes. If AI helps generate sane low level code, maybe it will help you make less buffer overflow mistakes. If AI can help test and design your firewall and network rules, maybe it will help you avoid exposing some holes in your CUPS service. Why not, if we're never getting rid of IP printing or C? Seems like part of the technological progress.

KoolKat23 2y ago

The scaling laws coming to mind. This concern becomes trivial as we scale. Its like worrying that your calculator app running on your phone could be more efficient when adding two numbers.

dathinab 2y ago
The problem is that the scaling law goes in two directions, things becoming (potential exponential) cheaper because they are done (produced) a lot and things becoming _(potential exponential) more expensive_ because the scale you try to archive so so much beyond what is sustainable (or in other word the higher the demand for a limited resource becomes the more expensive it becomes). Similar this law isn't really a law for a good reason, it doesn't always work. Not everything gets cheaper (in a relevant amount) at scale.