4 ms·

Gambling was already an issue 100 years ago, when we were closer to God, allegedly. "God" and religion also aren't particularly interested in gambling, or it wo

by tgv 2y ago

Gambling was already an issue 100 years ago, when we were closer to God, allegedly. "God" and religion also aren't particularly interested in gambling, or it would have been forbidden in those holy books. On the other hand, you can blame Protestantism directly for subverting individualism to greed, and hence for exploiting human frailty, such as gambling addiction. The only working moral on this mortal coil is a dose of empathy for your fellow human (and if you can bring yourself to it: your fellow animal). It doesn't require a new mental model, just proper stewardship.

keiferski 2y ago
Well Nietzsche died in 1900 and was writing about forces he perceived as already under way, long before he was alive. So I don’t think using a hundred years ago as an example really works, and even then, gambling wasn’t the massive legal operation it is today. And yes, most religions have weighed in on gambling as most societies have been shaped by religion. Secularism is a recent thing.
- tgv 2y ago
  If you think Nietzsche's writing are representative, then we've never been "close to God". > Secularism is a recent thing. Sokrates and Buddha would like a word.
  - keiferski 2y ago
    The death of God idea by Nietzsche is not about a real being actually dying. It is about the concept losing influence on society and what that means for things like ethics. Socrates and Buddha were 2,500 years ago and I don’t think I’d describe them as being secularists. Secularism is something that came out of the Enlightenment, in the West at least. It is absolutely a recent thing for the purposes of the discussion.
  - fdfgyu 2y ago
    To describe Buddha as a secularist would be projecting our modern values onto a man 2500 years ago. Reincarnation, the soul, karma, etc aren't exactly compatible with materialistic secularism.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > most religions have weighed in on gambling as most societies have been shaped by religion Really? Except Islam, are there rules against gambling in Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, or Buddhism?
  - cedilla 2y ago
    Yes, at least for Christians. I don't know if it comes verbatim from the Bible, but there are many denominations that find that gambling is sinful. Direct prohibitions from the scripture aren't the only source of religious rules - especially for secular questions. As another example, many denominations have strict rules against alcohol - despite the many positive stories about alcohol in the bible and the role of wine during communion.
    - swat535 2y ago
      Right, Gambling is an extension of greed and gluttony according to Christianity, which are both considered Sins.
  - arp242 2y ago
    "Ancient Jewish authorities frowned on gambling, even disqualifying professional gamblers from testifying in court." "The [Hindu] text Arthashastra (c. 4th century BCE) recommends taxation and control of gambling." "The Buddha stated gambling as a source of destruction in Singalovada Sutra. Professions that are seen to violate the precept against theft include working in the gambling industry." Instead of asking a lazy question as a challenge, you could have spent 3 seconds looking this up. It wasn't particularly hard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling#Religious_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling#Religious_views
  - fdfgyu 2y ago
    Baptists are strictly against gambling - GA introduced free college education funded by the lottery to legalize the state lottery (GA was losing a fortune to cross state gambling). The largest Christian denomination, the Roman Catholic Church, teaches that, while games of chance aren't intrinsically evil (ie running an MC simulation), and low stakes gambling is allowed (raffle), gambling must be - fair. That's obvious - even odds for all participants Presumably, no house advantage - not be pathological You cannot play if you're addicted to gambling, have an addictive personality, or often that an addiction could arise - not involve very high stakes as the money would have been better spent on the poor No $10 000/hand table.
- nojs 2y ago
  But the other half of “God is dead” according to Nietzsche is that nobody has yet realized. I don’t think 100 years is outside the timeframe he’d predict the consequences to take shape.
  - keiferski 2y ago
    Yes and I think that society at large still "hasn't realized," with actions like this removal of restrictions against gambling as a prime example of a consequence.
dangitman 2y ago
[dead]
pushupentry1219 2y ago
> "God" and religion also aren't particularly interested in gambling, or it would have been forbidden in those holy books. The Quran, which id consider among those as a "Holy book" condemns gambling pretty outright multiple times.
- Bilal_io 2y ago
  To add a high level context, Islam forbids gambling and interest bearing loans (Riba) because they're considered taking people's money unjustly. Allah says in the Quran: "O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful." 5:90 "...But Allah has permitted trade [buying and selling] and has forbidden interest..." 2:275
ikurei 2y ago
> Gambling was already an issue 100 years ago, when we were closer to God, allegedly. "God" and religion also aren't particularly interested in gambling No doubt it was. Workers were alienated before the industrial revolution too, and we were already emitting CO2 before the 1950s, but the scale of the problem changed in a very impactful way. Of course I doubt we can get reliable statistics from 1920s, but I don't think you should disregard their argument just because it was happening before. Gambling is as old as numbers, and it's not going to go away, but we can still look for the factors that drastically increased the magnitude of the issue.

by tgv 2y ago

keiferski 2y ago

Well Nietzsche died in 1900 and was writing about forces he perceived as already under way, long before he was alive. So I don’t think using a hundred years ago as an example really works, and even then, gambling wasn’t the massive legal operation it is today. And yes, most religions have weighed in on gambling as most societies have been shaped by religion. Secularism is a recent thing.

tgv 2y ago
If you think Nietzsche's writing are representative, then we've never been "close to God". > Secularism is a recent thing. Sokrates and Buddha would like a word.
- keiferski 2y ago
  The death of God idea by Nietzsche is not about a real being actually dying. It is about the concept losing influence on society and what that means for things like ethics. Socrates and Buddha were 2,500 years ago and I don’t think I’d describe them as being secularists. Secularism is something that came out of the Enlightenment, in the West at least. It is absolutely a recent thing for the purposes of the discussion.
- fdfgyu 2y ago
  To describe Buddha as a secularist would be projecting our modern values onto a man 2500 years ago. Reincarnation, the soul, karma, etc aren't exactly compatible with materialistic secularism.
throwaway2037 2y ago
> most religions have weighed in on gambling as most societies have been shaped by religion Really? Except Islam, are there rules against gambling in Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, or Buddhism?
- cedilla 2y ago
  Yes, at least for Christians. I don't know if it comes verbatim from the Bible, but there are many denominations that find that gambling is sinful. Direct prohibitions from the scripture aren't the only source of religious rules - especially for secular questions. As another example, many denominations have strict rules against alcohol - despite the many positive stories about alcohol in the bible and the role of wine during communion.
  - swat535 2y ago
    Right, Gambling is an extension of greed and gluttony according to Christianity, which are both considered Sins.
- arp242 2y ago
  "Ancient Jewish authorities frowned on gambling, even disqualifying professional gamblers from testifying in court." "The [Hindu] text Arthashastra (c. 4th century BCE) recommends taxation and control of gambling." "The Buddha stated gambling as a source of destruction in Singalovada Sutra. Professions that are seen to violate the precept against theft include working in the gambling industry." Instead of asking a lazy question as a challenge, you could have spent 3 seconds looking this up. It wasn't particularly hard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling#Religious_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling#Religious_views
- fdfgyu 2y ago
  Baptists are strictly against gambling - GA introduced free college education funded by the lottery to legalize the state lottery (GA was losing a fortune to cross state gambling). The largest Christian denomination, the Roman Catholic Church, teaches that, while games of chance aren't intrinsically evil (ie running an MC simulation), and low stakes gambling is allowed (raffle), gambling must be - fair. That's obvious - even odds for all participants Presumably, no house advantage - not be pathological You cannot play if you're addicted to gambling, have an addictive personality, or often that an addiction could arise - not involve very high stakes as the money would have been better spent on the poor No $10 000/hand table.
nojs 2y ago
But the other half of “God is dead” according to Nietzsche is that nobody has yet realized. I don’t think 100 years is outside the timeframe he’d predict the consequences to take shape.
- keiferski 2y ago
  Yes and I think that society at large still "hasn't realized," with actions like this removal of restrictions against gambling as a prime example of a consequence.

dangitman 2y ago

[dead]

pushupentry1219 2y ago

> "God" and religion also aren't particularly interested in gambling, or it would have been forbidden in those holy books. The Quran, which id consider among those as a "Holy book" condemns gambling pretty outright multiple times.

Bilal_io 2y ago
To add a high level context, Islam forbids gambling and interest bearing loans (Riba) because they're considered taking people's money unjustly. Allah says in the Quran: "O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful." 5:90 "...But Allah has permitted trade [buying and selling] and has forbidden interest..." 2:275

ikurei 2y ago

> Gambling was already an issue 100 years ago, when we were closer to God, allegedly. "God" and religion also aren't particularly interested in gambling No doubt it was. Workers were alienated before the industrial revolution too, and we were already emitting CO2 before the 1950s, but the scale of the problem changed in a very impactful way. Of course I doubt we can get reliable statistics from 1920s, but I don't think you should disregard their argument just because it was happening before. Gambling is as old as numbers, and it's not going to go away, but we can still look for the factors that drastically increased the magnitude of the issue.