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25.5% of that is Finland's VAT. Europeans include tax in prices. Also, for whatever reason, European clothes cleaning systems are insanely harsh, and your clo

by sneak 2y ago

25.5% of that is Finland's VAT. Europeans include tax in prices. Also, for whatever reason, European clothes cleaning systems are insanely harsh, and your clothes don't last nearly as long when washed there. I think it's related to the energy efficiency requirements; the dryers are much much hotter (if they are available at all) and the washers have to use miniscule amounts of water so they use a lot more agitating instead, I suppose. I've never had to buy so many clothes as after I moved to Europe, and they're never soft and fluffy anymore. It's like going back in time if you're used to North America.

switch007 2y ago
My new European heat pump energy efficient tree hugging liberal dryer only heats to about 47c (sorry not sure what that is in futuristic values) Edit: but I do understand about clothes. I think it has a lot to do with the decline in the quality of clothes more than anything. Agitation is quite central to the cleaning process no? Top loaders agitate too? I can't imagine there is much in it
- seszett 2y ago
  I'm not even sure US-style hot dryers are allowed in the EU? Everyone I know that has one has a low-temperature heat pump dryer.
  - switch007 2y ago
    Condenser dryers? Still available in UK and fairly sure most of EU
    - seszett 2y ago
      Alright, condenser dryers are the missing link I had forgotten between dryers that vent outside like in the US and the modern heat pump dryers.
  - sneak 2y ago
    My gas powered venting dryer in the US, while massively less efficient than my recirculating condenser electric dryer in Europe, seems to get way less hot and damages my clothing less. I think there is just much less airflow in the efficient ones? Not sure. I’ve washed the identical make/model clothes many many times in both places, as I split my time between the two.
mtts 2y ago
> Also, for whatever reason, European clothes cleaning systems are insanely harsh, and your clothes don't last nearly as long when washed there. I think it's related to the energy efficiency requirements; the dryers are much much hotter (if they are available at all) and the washers have to use miniscule amounts of water so they use a lot more agitating instead, I suppose. Wait, what? The one time I visited the US and had to use laundromats I could basically thrown away everything I’d worn on that trip because hose washing machines were so harsh. Back home in Europe, my clothes last years and sometimes even decades.
rsynnott 2y ago
Hrm, every benchmark of top-loader machines vs modern front-loader machines I've ever seen has front-loaders doing far better in terms of limiting damage to clothes. I suppose it's possible that old-fashioned high-water-use _front-loaders_ are easier on clothes (are those still a thing in the US?)
vladms 2y ago
Do you have a reference for cleaning systems being harsh? Having moved countries I noticed many difference in: water hardness (will make your cloths stiffer), materials used (when you buy stuff), usage (car versus biking vs public transport), weather (some places is more rainy), washing habits (not everybody washes as often). Overall my impression is that the quality of the clothes affects more their lasting chances than all the other aspects.
- sneak 2y ago
  I wear the exact same outfit every day, and I have many identical copies of it, so I have a ton of experience with how it functions when cleaned differently.
nottorp 2y ago
> Also, for whatever reason, European clothes cleaning systems are insanely harsh, and your clothes don't last nearly as long when washed there. Hmm. The blouse that's older than my 23 year old daughter would like a word with you. And I do wear it a lot in below 15 C weather. And I don't remember it having been particularly expensive. Your mileage wrt to clothes just ... may vary if you ask me.
n4r9 2y ago
Fwiw I'm in the UK. We have 20% VAT. I hang dry everything though, mayb that does make a difference.

by sneak 2y ago

switch007 2y ago

My new European heat pump energy efficient tree hugging liberal dryer only heats to about 47c (sorry not sure what that is in futuristic values) Edit: but I do understand about clothes. I think it has a lot to do with the decline in the quality of clothes more than anything. Agitation is quite central to the cleaning process no? Top loaders agitate too? I can't imagine there is much in it

seszett 2y ago
I'm not even sure US-style hot dryers are allowed in the EU? Everyone I know that has one has a low-temperature heat pump dryer.
- switch007 2y ago
  Condenser dryers? Still available in UK and fairly sure most of EU
  - seszett 2y ago
    Alright, condenser dryers are the missing link I had forgotten between dryers that vent outside like in the US and the modern heat pump dryers.
- sneak 2y ago
  My gas powered venting dryer in the US, while massively less efficient than my recirculating condenser electric dryer in Europe, seems to get way less hot and damages my clothing less. I think there is just much less airflow in the efficient ones? Not sure. I’ve washed the identical make/model clothes many many times in both places, as I split my time between the two.

mtts 2y ago

> Also, for whatever reason, European clothes cleaning systems are insanely harsh, and your clothes don't last nearly as long when washed there. I think it's related to the energy efficiency requirements; the dryers are much much hotter (if they are available at all) and the washers have to use miniscule amounts of water so they use a lot more agitating instead, I suppose. Wait, what? The one time I visited the US and had to use laundromats I could basically thrown away everything I’d worn on that trip because hose washing machines were so harsh. Back home in Europe, my clothes last years and sometimes even decades.

rsynnott 2y ago

Hrm, every benchmark of top-loader machines vs modern front-loader machines I've ever seen has front-loaders doing far better in terms of limiting damage to clothes. I suppose it's possible that old-fashioned high-water-use _front-loaders_ are easier on clothes (are those still a thing in the US?)

vladms 2y ago

Do you have a reference for cleaning systems being harsh? Having moved countries I noticed many difference in: water hardness (will make your cloths stiffer), materials used (when you buy stuff), usage (car versus biking vs public transport), weather (some places is more rainy), washing habits (not everybody washes as often). Overall my impression is that the quality of the clothes affects more their lasting chances than all the other aspects.

sneak 2y ago
I wear the exact same outfit every day, and I have many identical copies of it, so I have a ton of experience with how it functions when cleaned differently.

nottorp 2y ago

> Also, for whatever reason, European clothes cleaning systems are insanely harsh, and your clothes don't last nearly as long when washed there. Hmm. The blouse that's older than my 23 year old daughter would like a word with you. And I do wear it a lot in below 15 C weather. And I don't remember it having been particularly expensive. Your mileage wrt to clothes just ... may vary if you ask me.

n4r9 2y ago

Fwiw I'm in the UK. We have 20% VAT. I hang dry everything though, mayb that does make a difference.