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Interesting read. It puts into context the importance of luck in life. There is a group of people who become oppressed to the point that it becomes unbearable a

Interesting read. It puts into context the importance of luck in life. There is a group of people who become oppressed to the point that it becomes unbearable and they have a choice either to die by revolting too early without critical mass, or by letting themselves starve from the increasing weight of the oppression. In the case of the opioid epidemic, people have been/are driven to insanity and commit suicide by drug overdose. You really don't want to be in that early oppressed group. IMO, it's because human systems are over-systematized and over-regulated. It always causes oppression. Some group of people has to pay dearly for all the structures that are imposed on them. Laws and social structures essentially never work for everyone equally; at scale, many laws systematically steal wealth, power and opportunities from one group and give it to another. Even the most well-meaning laws basically end up stealing from certain groups of people for the benefit of others. Especially on a complex global playing field. Just look at Africa. It's not their fault that they're stuck in poverty... Western powers keep installing corrupt dictators by sponsoring coups. The dictators then saddle their citizens with debt. The people have little say. Then basically they become so poor that they are forced to immigrate to the rich countries which are causing the problems... And for the most part, join the lower class of that society where the oppression continues under a different form. They get to be oppressed in this slightly different way while also contributing to the continued oppression of their people back in their home countries through the gift their cheap labor to their oppressors in their new country, which enriches them. This is made possible by a combination of ignorance and intergenerational low self-esteem inflicted upon them by their oppressors as a result of manipulation of the political systems of their previous countries. IMO, US leftwing politics are extremely short sighted with their approach to immigration because they are building a critical mass of oppressed people in the US. Some people will be grateful initially but the gratefulness will soon turn to disdain once the new reality sinks in.

zakary 2y ago
Better never means better for everyone. And it always means worse for some.
- didgetmaster 2y ago
  Life is not a 'zero sum game'. Just because someone benefits from something does not mean someone else is exploited or oppressed. Many in the anti-capitalist crowd have the mindset that wealth is not created, but just spread around. If someone gets rich, it must mean others got poorer. If that were true then everyone would be getting poorer as the population grows (finite resources spread ever thinner within a growing society).
  - phil21 2y ago
    On human lifetime timescales much of life is very much so a zero sum game. Only the exceedingly privileged cannot grasp this fact of life. Academic bubble theories don’t help a generation of rust belt manufacturing workers, but it sure as hell made a whole lot of other folks rich at their direct expense. The same academics are happy to talk about income inequality while ignoring the elephant in the room. Ignoring this fact is exactly how we’ve gotten to where we are today. Politicians have only just begun to exploit this blind spot so many seem to have. I have directly benefited from this fact and have done quite well for myself. But it’s so obvious I can’t believe it’s even an argument. Comparative advantage may help their grandchildren, but it doesn’t help the 49 year old machinist with no realistic job opportunities and bills to pay after the executives ship the plant off to Mexico or China. I personally watched it happen.
    - naming_the_user 2y ago
      You're not describing a zero sum interaction because the gain in China has almost certainly outstripped the loss in the US. That's pretty much the story of globalization so far. Of course, it's a net loss for the rust belt.
      - phil21 2y ago
        This is precisely the academic theory bubble talk I was referring to. On balance no one cares that some Chinese peasants had a huge increase in quality of life. Their lives, and the lives of their children were significantly degraded so some executives and owners could get obscenely rich. If you zoom out far enough literally nothing is zero sum given the conservation of energy. But that’s a silly argument. That it may someday be a net win for humanity (and this is entirely uncertain) is very much immaterial to anyone other than folks so disconnected from reality that they are insulated from the impact these theoretical games have on real people in their own country and communities.
giovannibonetti 2y ago
That makes a lot of sense, well thought! The only thing I would like to add is regarding the critical mass of oppressed people in the US, at least when it comes to immigrants. I think the first generation struggles the most, but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other. Granted, for generations there will be a difference between their standard of living and the one from their non-immigrant counterparts on average, but that gradual reduction might be enough to avoid reaching the tipping point.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >I think the first generation struggles the most, but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other. >Granted, for generations there will be a difference between their standard of living and the one from their non-immigrant counterparts on average, but that gradual reduction might be enough to avoid reaching the tipping point. This is the conventional wisdom about immigration in the US, because that's what the historical record says, but you shouldn't accept this as a given. The historical record shows that immigrant groups assimilated well into America ~150-~50 years ago, but those were also times when the American economy was expanding at a huge rate. So of course there was lots of room for newcomers to fit into that economy and help build it, at a time when everyone's standard of living was constantly rising. This is no longer true: America is being vastly outcompeted by other economies, namely China's, and American society seems to be going downhill in general, a process that seems to me to have started (at least most visibly) in the early 2000s.
- nebula8804 2y ago
  >but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other. Not if you are the group currently in the hot seat. First it was Irish and then Italians and then Jewish and then Japanese and then Black and then so on and so on. Right now its probably Muslims and maybe in the future Chinese (I hope not). They are on average more successful than their parents but all of that can be taken away in the blink of an eye and many would lose out in that scenario. Just ask the Japanese or Koreans (some of which never recovered from the concentration camps or the LA riots).
saturn8601 2y ago
Thank you for this comment. It really expresses how I have been feeling in such a clear and eloquent way. The question is how do you overcome this? I am wasting my life away with this low self-esteem and also guilt because I see how the US has continued to damage my ancestral country (Pakistan) and it seems like there is no positive future for people there. I read about the utter despair of people there and it leads to guilt because despite my attempts to change the US political system (I have volunteered in multiple progressive campaigns and vote in every election) nothing changes. I was lucky to have such good parents that drilled studying and hard work into my head and I lucked into a career that pays extremely well so im in the upper tier of the income strata but despite this, I feel like a second class citizen sometimes. The day to day is not bad because you can distract yourself but when you look back at the big picture its a problem. I dont feel like my fellow countrymen have my back if s*it hits the fan. I have traveled enough throughout Europe and the other western nations to know that in all of these countries, people like me have it even worse than I do in the US but the US still feels fake like Mcdonalds.
- jongjong 2y ago
  It's great that you can see both extremes and have such a clear-eyed, honest view about the situation. There's only so much you can do. The way I deal with it is I post comments online. It's the best I can do and the least I can do. Also, I believe that pointing out system flaws will lead to better outcomes and a better life for every honest person, rich or poor.

zakary 2y ago

Better never means better for everyone. And it always means worse for some.

didgetmaster 2y ago
Life is not a 'zero sum game'. Just because someone benefits from something does not mean someone else is exploited or oppressed. Many in the anti-capitalist crowd have the mindset that wealth is not created, but just spread around. If someone gets rich, it must mean others got poorer. If that were true then everyone would be getting poorer as the population grows (finite resources spread ever thinner within a growing society).
- phil21 2y ago
  On human lifetime timescales much of life is very much so a zero sum game. Only the exceedingly privileged cannot grasp this fact of life. Academic bubble theories don’t help a generation of rust belt manufacturing workers, but it sure as hell made a whole lot of other folks rich at their direct expense. The same academics are happy to talk about income inequality while ignoring the elephant in the room. Ignoring this fact is exactly how we’ve gotten to where we are today. Politicians have only just begun to exploit this blind spot so many seem to have. I have directly benefited from this fact and have done quite well for myself. But it’s so obvious I can’t believe it’s even an argument. Comparative advantage may help their grandchildren, but it doesn’t help the 49 year old machinist with no realistic job opportunities and bills to pay after the executives ship the plant off to Mexico or China. I personally watched it happen.
  - naming_the_user 2y ago
    You're not describing a zero sum interaction because the gain in China has almost certainly outstripped the loss in the US. That's pretty much the story of globalization so far. Of course, it's a net loss for the rust belt.
    - phil21 2y ago
      This is precisely the academic theory bubble talk I was referring to. On balance no one cares that some Chinese peasants had a huge increase in quality of life. Their lives, and the lives of their children were significantly degraded so some executives and owners could get obscenely rich. If you zoom out far enough literally nothing is zero sum given the conservation of energy. But that’s a silly argument. That it may someday be a net win for humanity (and this is entirely uncertain) is very much immaterial to anyone other than folks so disconnected from reality that they are insulated from the impact these theoretical games have on real people in their own country and communities.

giovannibonetti 2y ago

That makes a lot of sense, well thought! The only thing I would like to add is regarding the critical mass of oppressed people in the US, at least when it comes to immigrants. I think the first generation struggles the most, but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other. Granted, for generations there will be a difference between their standard of living and the one from their non-immigrant counterparts on average, but that gradual reduction might be enough to avoid reaching the tipping point.

shiroiushi 2y ago
>I think the first generation struggles the most, but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other. >Granted, for generations there will be a difference between their standard of living and the one from their non-immigrant counterparts on average, but that gradual reduction might be enough to avoid reaching the tipping point. This is the conventional wisdom about immigration in the US, because that's what the historical record says, but you shouldn't accept this as a given. The historical record shows that immigrant groups assimilated well into America ~150-~50 years ago, but those were also times when the American economy was expanding at a huge rate. So of course there was lots of room for newcomers to fit into that economy and help build it, at a time when everyone's standard of living was constantly rising. This is no longer true: America is being vastly outcompeted by other economies, namely China's, and American society seems to be going downhill in general, a process that seems to me to have started (at least most visibly) in the early 2000s.
nebula8804 2y ago
>but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other. Not if you are the group currently in the hot seat. First it was Irish and then Italians and then Jewish and then Japanese and then Black and then so on and so on. Right now its probably Muslims and maybe in the future Chinese (I hope not). They are on average more successful than their parents but all of that can be taken away in the blink of an eye and many would lose out in that scenario. Just ask the Japanese or Koreans (some of which never recovered from the concentration camps or the LA riots).

saturn8601 2y ago

Thank you for this comment. It really expresses how I have been feeling in such a clear and eloquent way. The question is how do you overcome this? I am wasting my life away with this low self-esteem and also guilt because I see how the US has continued to damage my ancestral country (Pakistan) and it seems like there is no positive future for people there. I read about the utter despair of people there and it leads to guilt because despite my attempts to change the US political system (I have volunteered in multiple progressive campaigns and vote in every election) nothing changes. I was lucky to have such good parents that drilled studying and hard work into my head and I lucked into a career that pays extremely well so im in the upper tier of the income strata but despite this, I feel like a second class citizen sometimes. The day to day is not bad because you can distract yourself but when you look back at the big picture its a problem. I dont feel like my fellow countrymen have my back if s*it hits the fan. I have traveled enough throughout Europe and the other western nations to know that in all of these countries, people like me have it even worse than I do in the US but the US still feels fake like Mcdonalds.

jongjong 2y ago
It's great that you can see both extremes and have such a clear-eyed, honest view about the situation. There's only so much you can do. The way I deal with it is I post comments online. It's the best I can do and the least I can do. Also, I believe that pointing out system flaws will lead to better outcomes and a better life for every honest person, rich or poor.