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Other industries seem to be fine competing with other countries. Would there be some greater investment in manufacturing in the US if there were no labor (or en

by foota 2y ago

Other industries seem to be fine competing with other countries. Would there be some greater investment in manufacturing in the US if there were no labor (or environmental) constraints? Sure, but the fact that other industries compete just fine makes me believe it's simply not an economically efficient allocation of resources for labor heavy manufacturing to be done in the US.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
What industries? Steel? Protectionism. Batteries? Protectionism. Solar? Protectionism. Autos? Protectionism. Aircraft? Protectionism. Agriculture? Protectionism. Why? Because efficiency is a tradeoff where you give up security and resiliency.
- foota 2y ago
  Service industries.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Which are non critical and can be shed without much harm. Critical industries are, by definition, critical and require sacrificing efficiency to preserve. If you want to be able to build and retain the capability, you have to protect the machine that does the building: people, institutional knowledge and domain expertise, equipment, etc. Otherwise, you forget how to build, the machine evaporates. And here we are.
  - kortilla 2y ago
    That’s because a huge portion of the service industry requires local people.
  - vkou 2y ago
    Its kind of difficult for a hairdresser in Turkey to compete with the barber down the street from my house.
  - Mistletoe 2y ago
    If we measured our service industries the same way we measure boats, we would rapidly see they can’t float either.
- cyberax 2y ago
  > What industries? Steel? Protectionism. The US imports steel, and the protectionist regime almost killed the US steel: https://reason.com/2024/01/02/protectionism-ruined-u-s-steel/ https://reason.com/2024/01/02/protectionism-ruined-u-s-steel... > Batteries? Protectionism. Solar? Protectionism. That's relatively new, and it _will_ lead to disaster. The US is already falling behind in battery tech compared to China and South Korea. > Autos? Protectionism. Aircraft? Protectionism. Need I remind you of Detroit and its handling of cheap Japanese imports in 70-s and 80-s? Aircraft are only slightly protectionist, the US companies can (and do) buy foreign aircraft (Airbuses and Embraers are commonplace).
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    China is winning because they are intentionally and directly investing in tech regardless of the financial circumstances. They don’t care about the profits, they are focused on the outcomes. They are doing what developed countries should be doing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025
    - decafninja 2y ago
      They’re also an authoritarian state that doesn’t have to worry about various pesky things that grind Western democracies to a halt. If the Pharoah wants a fleet of aircraft carriers, the Pharoah will have a fleet of aircraft carriers.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Winning is winning. History is written by the victors. Important to know who you’re playing against, and whether you’re playing by the same rules, and if the rules matter. It’s not great, but it is what it is. We must operate in a way based upon how the world is, not the way that we wish it was.
        decafninja 2y ago
        At this point, China is outdoing the West in so many ways, and rapidly catching up in the areas where it still lags. I’m not one to eagerly praise the CCP, but it’s hard to not see how China is progressing while the West lags more and more. The West plays nice as much as possible. China is playing to win.
- nostrademons 2y ago
  Music, movies, microcode, and high-speed pizza delivery.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Music? I don't think anyone listens to American music these days outside of America (and maybe Canada). America used to produce great music, back in the 60s-80s, that people around the world wanted to listen to, but that went away after the 2000s. American movies, however, are still quite popular abroad. Offhand, I'd say it's one of America's biggest exports. "Microcode" is the other one, if you mean things like CPU design: all the biggest CPU makers are in America: Intel, AMD, Apple, Qualcomm, etc. (Many of the CPUs are manufactured elsewhere, usually by TSMC, but all the design work is done in the US.)
    - TrickyRick 2y ago
      There's this Taylor girl who seems pretty popular but maybe you're right, the record concert sales probably implies nobody is listening to her.
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        According to this article (https://www.billboard.com/business/touring/taylor-swift-eras-tour-tickets-cheaper-europe-1235671760/ https://www.billboard.com/business/touring/taylor-swift-eras...), it looks like it's mainly American tourists going to Europe to see Swift's shows because the ticket prices are 1/10 as much as in America. Apparently, it costs about $5000 for a couple to see a Swift show in the US now, so it's actually a lot cheaper to just fly to Europe to see her show.
        daveguy 2y ago
        > $5000 for a couple to see a Swift show in the US now... That's just not true. As long as you are able to get an original ticket and not a resold one. But ticketmaster and live nation should be regulated because they're a middleman monopoly in all of it.

by foota 2y ago

toomuchtodo 2y ago

What industries? Steel? Protectionism. Batteries? Protectionism. Solar? Protectionism. Autos? Protectionism. Aircraft? Protectionism. Agriculture? Protectionism. Why? Because efficiency is a tradeoff where you give up security and resiliency.

foota 2y ago
Service industries.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Which are non critical and can be shed without much harm. Critical industries are, by definition, critical and require sacrificing efficiency to preserve. If you want to be able to build and retain the capability, you have to protect the machine that does the building: people, institutional knowledge and domain expertise, equipment, etc. Otherwise, you forget how to build, the machine evaporates. And here we are.
- kortilla 2y ago
  That’s because a huge portion of the service industry requires local people.
- vkou 2y ago
  Its kind of difficult for a hairdresser in Turkey to compete with the barber down the street from my house.
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  If we measured our service industries the same way we measure boats, we would rapidly see they can’t float either.
cyberax 2y ago
> What industries? Steel? Protectionism. The US imports steel, and the protectionist regime almost killed the US steel: https://reason.com/2024/01/02/protectionism-ruined-u-s-steel/ https://reason.com/2024/01/02/protectionism-ruined-u-s-steel... > Batteries? Protectionism. Solar? Protectionism. That's relatively new, and it _will_ lead to disaster. The US is already falling behind in battery tech compared to China and South Korea. > Autos? Protectionism. Aircraft? Protectionism. Need I remind you of Detroit and its handling of cheap Japanese imports in 70-s and 80-s? Aircraft are only slightly protectionist, the US companies can (and do) buy foreign aircraft (Airbuses and Embraers are commonplace).
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  China is winning because they are intentionally and directly investing in tech regardless of the financial circumstances. They don’t care about the profits, they are focused on the outcomes. They are doing what developed countries should be doing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025
  - decafninja 2y ago
    They’re also an authoritarian state that doesn’t have to worry about various pesky things that grind Western democracies to a halt. If the Pharoah wants a fleet of aircraft carriers, the Pharoah will have a fleet of aircraft carriers.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Winning is winning. History is written by the victors. Important to know who you’re playing against, and whether you’re playing by the same rules, and if the rules matter. It’s not great, but it is what it is. We must operate in a way based upon how the world is, not the way that we wish it was.
      - decafninja 2y ago
        At this point, China is outdoing the West in so many ways, and rapidly catching up in the areas where it still lags. I’m not one to eagerly praise the CCP, but it’s hard to not see how China is progressing while the West lags more and more. The West plays nice as much as possible. China is playing to win.
nostrademons 2y ago
Music, movies, microcode, and high-speed pizza delivery.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Music? I don't think anyone listens to American music these days outside of America (and maybe Canada). America used to produce great music, back in the 60s-80s, that people around the world wanted to listen to, but that went away after the 2000s. American movies, however, are still quite popular abroad. Offhand, I'd say it's one of America's biggest exports. "Microcode" is the other one, if you mean things like CPU design: all the biggest CPU makers are in America: Intel, AMD, Apple, Qualcomm, etc. (Many of the CPUs are manufactured elsewhere, usually by TSMC, but all the design work is done in the US.)
  - TrickyRick 2y ago
    There's this Taylor girl who seems pretty popular but maybe you're right, the record concert sales probably implies nobody is listening to her.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      According to this article (https://www.billboard.com/business/touring/taylor-swift-eras-tour-tickets-cheaper-europe-1235671760/ https://www.billboard.com/business/touring/taylor-swift-eras...), it looks like it's mainly American tourists going to Europe to see Swift's shows because the ticket prices are 1/10 as much as in America. Apparently, it costs about $5000 for a couple to see a Swift show in the US now, so it's actually a lot cheaper to just fly to Europe to see her show.
      - daveguy 2y ago
        > $5000 for a couple to see a Swift show in the US now... That's just not true. As long as you are able to get an original ticket and not a resold one. But ticketmaster and live nation should be regulated because they're a middleman monopoly in all of it.