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Unionized workers can be hired on a temporary basis. By cushy contracts this means that the amount of wealth extraction from workers is not as great as it is i

Unionized workers can be hired on a temporary basis. By cushy contracts this means that the amount of wealth extraction from workers is not as great as it is in other American industries.

cyberax 2y ago
> Unionized workers can be hired on a temporary basis With these unions ("Boilermakers")? No chance. They can officially give their jobs to their _children_ upon retiring. There is a waiting list for apprenticeships. You have to complete 8000 hours of apprenticeship, even if you are already qualified. > By cushy contracts this means that the amount of wealth extraction from workers is not as great as it is in other American industries. WA is ordering ferries at $1.5B per item. They cost 20 _times_ less if ordered from Turkey. This is not "wealth extraction from workers", this is "sucking on the teat of taxpayers".
- vlovich123 2y ago
  For what it’s worth American workers as a whole make ~20x what Turkish workers do. While American shipbuilders make more than the average while Turkish ones are closer to their average countrymen, the 20x discrepancy in salaries doesn’t seem limited to shipbuilding. So not sure about the characterization of “sucking on the teat of taxpayers” per se vs overall higher regulations and salaries in the US.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > For what it’s worth American workers as a whole make ~20x what Turkish workers do. It's about 7x. > 20x discrepancy in salaries Not salaries. The end-product costs.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      Average national salary in the US $60k [1] vs 5k for turkey so closer to 11-12x (the coasts typically pay closer to 70k). So at most unions are costing US built ships to be twice as expensive due to unions and overall higher US wages are responsible for the price difference - difficult to compete on price with people that are willing to work for 1/10th your wage unless you can automate significantly more than them. [1]: https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/business/hr-payroll/average-salary-us/ https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/business/hr-payroll...
      - cyberax 2y ago
        I looked up the salary for qualified machinists in both countries, not the average.
  - xyzzyz 2y ago
    US-built cars do not cost 20 times that of Turkey-built cars.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      US built cars are automated like crazy, have a lot of experience scaling, and save significantly on shipping costs.
LorenPechtel 2y ago
Hire who? There won't be other skilled people. And cushy contracts mean products that are considerably more expensive. Pretty much the only unionized industries left are those where they are somehow protected from competition. That's because union products cost enough more to drive them out of the market.
- bumby 2y ago
  I don’t think it’s coincidence that the American addiction to cheap shit coincides with lower union membership and a shrinking middle class.

Unionized workers can be hired on a temporary basis. By cushy contracts this means that the amount of wealth extraction from workers is not as great as it is in other American industries.

cyberax 2y ago

> Unionized workers can be hired on a temporary basis With these unions ("Boilermakers")? No chance. They can officially give their jobs to their _children_ upon retiring. There is a waiting list for apprenticeships. You have to complete 8000 hours of apprenticeship, even if you are already qualified. > By cushy contracts this means that the amount of wealth extraction from workers is not as great as it is in other American industries. WA is ordering ferries at $1.5B per item. They cost 20 _times_ less if ordered from Turkey. This is not "wealth extraction from workers", this is "sucking on the teat of taxpayers".

vlovich123 2y ago
For what it’s worth American workers as a whole make ~20x what Turkish workers do. While American shipbuilders make more than the average while Turkish ones are closer to their average countrymen, the 20x discrepancy in salaries doesn’t seem limited to shipbuilding. So not sure about the characterization of “sucking on the teat of taxpayers” per se vs overall higher regulations and salaries in the US.
- cyberax 2y ago
  > For what it’s worth American workers as a whole make ~20x what Turkish workers do. It's about 7x. > 20x discrepancy in salaries Not salaries. The end-product costs.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    Average national salary in the US $60k [1] vs 5k for turkey so closer to 11-12x (the coasts typically pay closer to 70k). So at most unions are costing US built ships to be twice as expensive due to unions and overall higher US wages are responsible for the price difference - difficult to compete on price with people that are willing to work for 1/10th your wage unless you can automate significantly more than them. [1]: https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/business/hr-payroll/average-salary-us/ https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/business/hr-payroll...
    - cyberax 2y ago
      I looked up the salary for qualified machinists in both countries, not the average.
- xyzzyz 2y ago
  US-built cars do not cost 20 times that of Turkey-built cars.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    US built cars are automated like crazy, have a lot of experience scaling, and save significantly on shipping costs.

LorenPechtel 2y ago

Hire who? There won't be other skilled people. And cushy contracts mean products that are considerably more expensive. Pretty much the only unionized industries left are those where they are somehow protected from competition. That's because union products cost enough more to drive them out of the market.

bumby 2y ago
I don’t think it’s coincidence that the American addiction to cheap shit coincides with lower union membership and a shrinking middle class.