4 ms·

> The resources of Wordpress.org and the Wordpress Foundation should not be leverage in this dispute. I honestly wonder if it crosses any legal boundaries. Fro

by flutas 2y ago

> The resources of Wordpress.org and the Wordpress Foundation should not be leverage in this dispute. I honestly wonder if it crosses any legal boundaries. From what I can tell, it's essentially the non-profit acting on commands from the for-profit. Basically the equivalent in my mind to a "in-kind donation".

that_guy_iain 2y ago
To me, I think it's more that it shows they're one entity and then it is a massive issue about the tax write offs Automattic will have been claiming for years. But, I guess we'll see because WP Engine is going to come out swinging on this. They have to. There is also the fact that WP Engine sponsored a WordPress Foundation event and then was kicked out of it because of this dispute. The WordPress foundation accepted 75k knowing what WP Engine was doing and then didn't honour the deal.
- safety1st 2y ago
  This is also the most shocking thing to me, that Matt seems to be very blasé about using Automattic and the foundation more or less interchangeably and in a very public way to further his goals. So other than the tax writeoffs what was the point of creating the foundation? Where is this guy's legal counsel? Surely they have to be screaming their heads off right now because from the outside every indication now is that the Foundation is really just an extension of Automattic that exists to dodge taxes and whether it is claiming its nonprofit status legally is now becoming a question mark. This is so far for Matt to have fallen and taken WordPress with him
  - that_guy_iain 2y ago
    > Where is this guy's legal counsel? They're represented by Perkins Coie. Who, even as someone from the EU who doesn't do any legal stuff, I have heard of and know are very good. I think they'll be kind of loving this mess. Because even though this is a mess, they're going to get paid to deal with the mess.
- Nemo_bis 2y ago
  > the tax write offs Automattic will have been claiming for years How? There's exactly zero dollars of donations from Automattic in the Wordpress Foundation financials. https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/205498932 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/205... (It would be quite defensible for Automattic to claim they're donating many millions in-kind every year, but they don't seem to be doing it.)
  - that_guy_iain 2y ago
    They'll be writing off all those contributions 4000 hours is a lot of hours.
    - Nemo_bis 2y ago
      Says who? https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/charitable-contributions-written-acknowledgments https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organiz...
      - that_guy_iain 2y ago
        It’s a guess since they’re keep track of hours of contributions. Development services are services under that irs doc, afaik.
        Nemo_bis 2y ago
        It doesn't matter that Automattic keeps track. For the contribution to be fiscally relevant, the Foundation needs to keep track and release receips (and presumably report the totals somewhere).
        that_guy_iain 2y ago
        And the foundation would keep track of it by Automattic saying this is how much work we did...
kgwgk 2y ago
If the non-profit is doing something for the benefit of the for-profit it’s the reverse of a donation - unless you really meant a “donation” from the foundation to the company.
- flutas 2y ago
  > unless you really meant a “donation” from the foundation to the company Yeah, that's what I meant. Essentially laundering money through the 501c3 to try and negate taxes. In this case actual money never changed hands, but what is the financial value of cutting off your competitor from the theme/plugin repo?... Not an insignificant amount.
  - kgwgk 2y ago
    Ah, I misunderstood your "wonder if it crosses any legal boundaries" as "it seems it doesn't" rather than "it seems it does". I completely agree.

by flutas 2y ago

that_guy_iain 2y ago

To me, I think it's more that it shows they're one entity and then it is a massive issue about the tax write offs Automattic will have been claiming for years. But, I guess we'll see because WP Engine is going to come out swinging on this. They have to. There is also the fact that WP Engine sponsored a WordPress Foundation event and then was kicked out of it because of this dispute. The WordPress foundation accepted 75k knowing what WP Engine was doing and then didn't honour the deal.

safety1st 2y ago
This is also the most shocking thing to me, that Matt seems to be very blasé about using Automattic and the foundation more or less interchangeably and in a very public way to further his goals. So other than the tax writeoffs what was the point of creating the foundation? Where is this guy's legal counsel? Surely they have to be screaming their heads off right now because from the outside every indication now is that the Foundation is really just an extension of Automattic that exists to dodge taxes and whether it is claiming its nonprofit status legally is now becoming a question mark. This is so far for Matt to have fallen and taken WordPress with him
- that_guy_iain 2y ago
  > Where is this guy's legal counsel? They're represented by Perkins Coie. Who, even as someone from the EU who doesn't do any legal stuff, I have heard of and know are very good. I think they'll be kind of loving this mess. Because even though this is a mess, they're going to get paid to deal with the mess.
Nemo_bis 2y ago
> the tax write offs Automattic will have been claiming for years How? There's exactly zero dollars of donations from Automattic in the Wordpress Foundation financials. https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/205498932 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/205... (It would be quite defensible for Automattic to claim they're donating many millions in-kind every year, but they don't seem to be doing it.)
- that_guy_iain 2y ago
  They'll be writing off all those contributions 4000 hours is a lot of hours.
  - Nemo_bis 2y ago
    Says who? https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/charitable-contributions-written-acknowledgments https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organiz...
    - that_guy_iain 2y ago
      It’s a guess since they’re keep track of hours of contributions. Development services are services under that irs doc, afaik.
      - Nemo_bis 2y ago
        It doesn't matter that Automattic keeps track. For the contribution to be fiscally relevant, the Foundation needs to keep track and release receips (and presumably report the totals somewhere).
        that_guy_iain 2y ago
        And the foundation would keep track of it by Automattic saying this is how much work we did...

kgwgk 2y ago

If the non-profit is doing something for the benefit of the for-profit it’s the reverse of a donation - unless you really meant a “donation” from the foundation to the company.

flutas 2y ago
> unless you really meant a “donation” from the foundation to the company Yeah, that's what I meant. Essentially laundering money through the 501c3 to try and negate taxes. In this case actual money never changed hands, but what is the financial value of cutting off your competitor from the theme/plugin repo?... Not an insignificant amount.
- kgwgk 2y ago
  Ah, I misunderstood your "wonder if it crosses any legal boundaries" as "it seems it doesn't" rather than "it seems it does". I completely agree.