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Java encourages (partly through language design and partly through its community/ecosystem) [Enterprise Grade Programming](https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityC

Java encourages (partly through language design and partly through its community/ecosystem) [Enterprise Grade Programming](https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris...). The problem isn't the language per se, but that most code bases will require you to earn an architecture astronaut certification for that particular code base. But also, the Go spec is a couple of pages and the Java spec is, uh, it's taking a while to load for me... ah yes, 876 pages. How's that learning curve?

riku_iki 2y ago
> but that most code bases will require you to earn an architecture astronaut certification for that particular code base. sure, if go would be popular in enterprise dev, we would see magnitude more error handling spagetti and genericless copy-paste code in go > But also, the Go spec is a couple of pages I think you undermeasured it by 20 times. Also it is very possible that golang spec is much more shallow. But anyway, I don't think one need to learn java spec to learn the language.
- jdangk 2y ago
  Java is too slow, and the language is not powerful.
- agarren 2y ago
  The go spec today is ~130 pages [0]. Like golang’s Stalin, its spec remarkably approachable. The latest Java spec is ~800 [1], also very accessible, but clearly there’s more complexity there. You have to admit, there’s something appealing about being able to read the entire spec for a popular, performant, production language over a lunch break. You don’t need to read and/or master a language’s specification in order to use it. But at 130 pages, you can. [0] https://go.dev/ref/spec https://go.dev/ref/spec [1] https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se23/jls23.pdf https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se23/jls23.pdf
  - riku_iki 2y ago
    > You have to admit, there’s something appealing about being able to read the entire spec for a popular, performant, production language over a lunch break. You don’t need to read and/or master a language’s specification in order to use it. But at 130 pages, you can. you are probably programming language enthusiast, but I am not, I have long list of other things to read..

riku_iki 2y ago

> but that most code bases will require you to earn an architecture astronaut certification for that particular code base. sure, if go would be popular in enterprise dev, we would see magnitude more error handling spagetti and genericless copy-paste code in go > But also, the Go spec is a couple of pages I think you undermeasured it by 20 times. Also it is very possible that golang spec is much more shallow. But anyway, I don't think one need to learn java spec to learn the language.

jdangk 2y ago
Java is too slow, and the language is not powerful.
agarren 2y ago
The go spec today is ~130 pages [0]. Like golang’s Stalin, its spec remarkably approachable. The latest Java spec is ~800 [1], also very accessible, but clearly there’s more complexity there. You have to admit, there’s something appealing about being able to read the entire spec for a popular, performant, production language over a lunch break. You don’t need to read and/or master a language’s specification in order to use it. But at 130 pages, you can. [0] https://go.dev/ref/spec https://go.dev/ref/spec [1] https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se23/jls23.pdf https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se23/jls23.pdf
- riku_iki 2y ago
  > You have to admit, there’s something appealing about being able to read the entire spec for a popular, performant, production language over a lunch break. You don’t need to read and/or master a language’s specification in order to use it. But at 130 pages, you can. you are probably programming language enthusiast, but I am not, I have long list of other things to read..