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Looks to me like all cars sold by KIA are still owned by KIA. I'm not worried about that exploit at all, it has been fixed. I'm terrified about how much data ab

by emsign 2y ago

Looks to me like all cars sold by KIA are still owned by KIA. I'm not worried about that exploit at all, it has been fixed. I'm terrified about how much data about a car and therefore about the "owner" is available to KIA. That's totally insane.

grahamj 2y ago
I question some of this though. I have an older Kia that I’m pretty sure has no cell modem yet the support table shows it can be geolocated.
cryptonector 2y ago
Not just KIA. Most if not all major automobile manufacturers track a huge amount of data on the vehicles [and their owners/operators]. For example, many vehicles come with that OnStar thing, and so they have a baseband processor and even LTE as well as a GPS receiver, and it's always on even if you don't pay for the service, which means that the manufacturer gets to know your vehicle's location and all the places you go and the routes you take.
- hathawsh 2y ago
  OTOH, OnStar's remote disable feature is pretty compelling for consumers. It's not hard to find YouTube videos [1] of thieves being thwarted safely. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9FbBgG2axE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9FbBgG2axE
  - simoncion 2y ago
    The price of that feature (constant tracking of your vehicle's location) is not worth it in a world where entities who sell or give away that location data without the vehicle owner's explicit, intentional, actually-informed consent do not go to superjail forever.
    - umbra07 2y ago
      not worth it to you
  - Roark66 2y ago
    Why does it have to track your bloody location all the time though? Why not make it so it just logs in to the server every 5 minutes and asks. "Have I been stolen?" and if the answer is yes it activates. Better yet, mandate all software like this is open source so no manufacturer can claim one thing and do another. And before anyone says "but the thief can swap the ECU before it calls home and if it was continously reporting at least there would be a trail where he did it" it is silly. Let's say there indeed is a gps trail leading from in front of your house to some alleyway or a forest. Do you think the car is still there? Nope. It is a common fallacy. The manufacturer wants to steal your privacy and gives you a useful feature tied to it. Oh, do you want to be able to switch the car off remotely when it's stolen or not? If so we need to know where you drive for next 20 years. And if you ever drove over 80mph we're using this to decline your warranty BTW. I
- s3p 2y ago
  It's so funny how people arguing for commonsense ability to disable car cellular are laughed at. See the Kia Niro forum: https://www.kianiroforum.com/threads/how-to-remove-head-unit-lte-modem.10464/ https://www.kianiroforum.com/threads/how-to-remove-head-unit...
lofaszvanitt 2y ago
After your phone which is the ultimate oppressor device, now your car is also snitching on you. Nice future ahead of us.
EricE 2y ago
If you own a car since about 2010 onwards it's probably ratting you out already. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-your-car-knows-about-you-and-opt-out-sharing-when-you-can https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-yo...
- ThinkingGuy 2y ago
  If your car's old enough, though, it may be still stuck with a 3G modem that is no longer capable of phoning home.

by emsign 2y ago

grahamj 2y ago

I question some of this though. I have an older Kia that I’m pretty sure has no cell modem yet the support table shows it can be geolocated.

cryptonector 2y ago

Not just KIA. Most if not all major automobile manufacturers track a huge amount of data on the vehicles [and their owners/operators]. For example, many vehicles come with that OnStar thing, and so they have a baseband processor and even LTE as well as a GPS receiver, and it's always on even if you don't pay for the service, which means that the manufacturer gets to know your vehicle's location and all the places you go and the routes you take.

hathawsh 2y ago
OTOH, OnStar's remote disable feature is pretty compelling for consumers. It's not hard to find YouTube videos [1] of thieves being thwarted safely. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9FbBgG2axE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9FbBgG2axE
- simoncion 2y ago
  The price of that feature (constant tracking of your vehicle's location) is not worth it in a world where entities who sell or give away that location data without the vehicle owner's explicit, intentional, actually-informed consent do not go to superjail forever.
  - umbra07 2y ago
    not worth it to you
- Roark66 2y ago
  Why does it have to track your bloody location all the time though? Why not make it so it just logs in to the server every 5 minutes and asks. "Have I been stolen?" and if the answer is yes it activates. Better yet, mandate all software like this is open source so no manufacturer can claim one thing and do another. And before anyone says "but the thief can swap the ECU before it calls home and if it was continously reporting at least there would be a trail where he did it" it is silly. Let's say there indeed is a gps trail leading from in front of your house to some alleyway or a forest. Do you think the car is still there? Nope. It is a common fallacy. The manufacturer wants to steal your privacy and gives you a useful feature tied to it. Oh, do you want to be able to switch the car off remotely when it's stolen or not? If so we need to know where you drive for next 20 years. And if you ever drove over 80mph we're using this to decline your warranty BTW. I
s3p 2y ago
It's so funny how people arguing for commonsense ability to disable car cellular are laughed at. See the Kia Niro forum: https://www.kianiroforum.com/threads/how-to-remove-head-unit-lte-modem.10464/ https://www.kianiroforum.com/threads/how-to-remove-head-unit...

lofaszvanitt 2y ago

After your phone which is the ultimate oppressor device, now your car is also snitching on you. Nice future ahead of us.

EricE 2y ago

If you own a car since about 2010 onwards it's probably ratting you out already. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-your-car-knows-about-you-and-opt-out-sharing-when-you-can https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-yo...

ThinkingGuy 2y ago
If your car's old enough, though, it may be still stuck with a 3G modem that is no longer capable of phoning home.