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So making libgen is illegal, but using it to train LLMs is legal? I know there's a whole issue of transitive liability (maybe you couldn't know you were getting
by 6gvONxR4sf7o 2y ago
So making libgen is illegal, but using it to train LLMs is legal? I know there's a whole issue of transitive liability (maybe you couldn't know you were getting an illegal thing from the thief, so it doesn't always make sense for you to to be liable too), but this kind of thing seems to power way too much of my industry for me to be comfortable.
- outside2344 2y agoThe people training LLMs have billions of dollars and the people using it to read that can't afford a $300 journal do not. So training is legal and reading is illegal.
- ErikAugust 2y agoSo, the solution to legal problems is… money? Lots of money?
- exe34 2y agobeautifully put, thank you! it's the golden rule - those with the gold make up the rules.
- 77pt77 2y agoGold or money is a just proxy for power. Power is the final crux here.
- Brian_K_White 2y agoThey are cross fungible and leverage able, so this is a silly empty distinction. But money has historically been more effective at producing or controlling power than the other way around.
- 77pt77 2y agoThey are not cross fungible. Money/gold is a proxy in the current social system.
- exe34 2y agothat's right, the neanderthals didn't use gold, they hit each other with clubs.
- ffsm8 2y agoI'm not sure I can agree with that, because historically speaking would include the time we had nobility. And in that time period, having money would not provide you with power, as nobles were beyond the law and could simply cease it for themselves.
- exe34 2y agomoney would buy you mercenaries to overthrow the nobility.
- AlanYx 2y agoThere's the concept of inducing copyright infringement (a la MGM v. Grokster), so much depends on whether those who train LLMs were inducing libgen's operations in some way, for example if payment or resources were being contributed to libgen.
- breck 2y ago[flagged]
- coliveira 2y agoWelcome to the future! Companies will make illegal or very expensive to access original information, like scientific papers. However, guess what, your friendly AI LLM, trained by your friendly tech monopoly on stollen data, will allow you to access all this research that was paid with your taxes, through monthly payments. But don't ask the AI where it got this information from, because it can get really upset with you...
- exe34 2y agoif you ask it to explain how it arrived at this reasoning, they'll ban you.
- int_19h 2y agoIt's actually amusingly easy to have ChatGPT criticize some OpenAI practice or another. Tell it to do a search for some controversial story, then to "analyze it from an ethical standpoint".
- zelphirkalt 2y agoSeriously, who is running around here on HN downvoting such comments?
- 77pt77 2y ago[flagged]
- omnimus 2y agoThere is old group photo floating around with Sam Altman and Aaron Swartz. One ended up in jail commiting suicide for scraping freely licensed JSTOR articles. The other is considered hero for scraping JSTOR articles and every other article ever. Lesson is dont waste peoples time with things that dont make money. More money it makes the safer you are.
- mrinfinitiesx 2y agoRIP Aaron Swartz.
- yard2010 2y agoI live in the wrong timeline :(
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- salawat 2y agoRule of Capitalism #1: If it is found to be good, but one can't make money off it, it must be made illegal to produce run, then replaced with something that sucks horribly, but can potentially be profitted off of.