4 ms·

I"m not sure what "budget" you're referring to Apple didn't pay well for most of its life, until well after iPhone/iPad success It was not like "FAANG salarie

by chubot 2y ago

I"m not sure what "budget" you're referring to Apple didn't pay well for most of its life, until well after iPhone/iPad success It was not like "FAANG salaries", which started around 2011, by my reckoning because Facebook didn't agree to the "Steve Jobs collusion" with Google/Intel/Pixar (ironically!) This is very well documented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... Steve Jobs e-mails Eric Schmidt (2007) -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28699873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28699873 Steve mostly realized the good engineers want to work with other good engineers, no matter what they are paid He didn't actually give people "budget"

salamanderman 2y ago
I can't tell for sure if the "ironically" refers to it feeling ironic that Facebook didn't collude, or that Pixar did collude. If it's the latter, it's because Jobs was CEO and primary shareholder of Pixar and orchestrated it's purchase by Disney to get himself a seat on the Disney board. Ironically, if I'm recalling the biography correctly, Jobs made significantly more money from Pixar than he did from his first phase at Apple.
roughly 2y ago
A budget is also time, resources, and latitude. Steve Jobs’ “Figure it out” was “I’ve given you a task, now go do what’s necessary to get it done”. This is what the post you’re responding to is referencing: the client is asking for something to get done but is not providing the resources required. As a side note, engineers tend to be bad at couching conversations in these terms - nothing is impossible*, things just cost more or less, and that’s a decision for the money people to make. * yes yes caveat caveat
al_borland 2y ago
When I think of “budget” in this context, I’m thinking about what is available to the engineers in terms of tools, resources, and time. Where I work, it doesn’t really matter what I’m paid, we don’t have a budget to go get what we need. If I think a certain tool would help get a job done faster, too bad, I have to cobble together what I can with the tools I’ve been provided. If I think something will take a year, too bad, it’s due in a month and we’ll have an hour long meeting every day to ask why it isn’t done yet. In this context, employee pay is largely irrelevant.
saghm 2y ago
I'm not sure this makes the idea of him saying "just figure it out" any more applicable to the rest of us (which is what the parent comment was responding to). You've pointed out that he was _unsuccessful_ for a number of decades before hitting the jackpot, and I'm dubious that the only reason he was more successful than everyone else in the long run was due to the rest of the industry just not trying hard enough. That means it was some combination of his specific skills or circumstances beyond his control, and either way, it's not really super actionable advice to "just figure it out (and either be uniquely talented or extremely lucky)".
dotancohen 2y ago
I was referring to project budget, not pay.

by chubot 2y ago

salamanderman 2y ago

I can't tell for sure if the "ironically" refers to it feeling ironic that Facebook didn't collude, or that Pixar did collude. If it's the latter, it's because Jobs was CEO and primary shareholder of Pixar and orchestrated it's purchase by Disney to get himself a seat on the Disney board. Ironically, if I'm recalling the biography correctly, Jobs made significantly more money from Pixar than he did from his first phase at Apple.

roughly 2y ago

A budget is also time, resources, and latitude. Steve Jobs’ “Figure it out” was “I’ve given you a task, now go do what’s necessary to get it done”. This is what the post you’re responding to is referencing: the client is asking for something to get done but is not providing the resources required. As a side note, engineers tend to be bad at couching conversations in these terms - nothing is impossible*, things just cost more or less, and that’s a decision for the money people to make. * yes yes caveat caveat

al_borland 2y ago

When I think of “budget” in this context, I’m thinking about what is available to the engineers in terms of tools, resources, and time. Where I work, it doesn’t really matter what I’m paid, we don’t have a budget to go get what we need. If I think a certain tool would help get a job done faster, too bad, I have to cobble together what I can with the tools I’ve been provided. If I think something will take a year, too bad, it’s due in a month and we’ll have an hour long meeting every day to ask why it isn’t done yet. In this context, employee pay is largely irrelevant.

saghm 2y ago

I'm not sure this makes the idea of him saying "just figure it out" any more applicable to the rest of us (which is what the parent comment was responding to). You've pointed out that he was _unsuccessful_ for a number of decades before hitting the jackpot, and I'm dubious that the only reason he was more successful than everyone else in the long run was due to the rest of the industry just not trying hard enough. That means it was some combination of his specific skills or circumstances beyond his control, and either way, it's not really super actionable advice to "just figure it out (and either be uniquely talented or extremely lucky)".

dotancohen 2y ago

I was referring to project budget, not pay.