4 ms·

Also, intervention !== accident. Not sure where you made that conclusion

llamaimperative 2y ago
Were you intervening on a system that was working perfectly? "Using FSD as full self driving" == no intervention possible. Would you not have crashed if you couldn't intervene?
- Retric 2y ago
  Not all failures relate to safety. Self driving needs to get somewhere specific reasonably quickly, and avoid accidents.
- pants2 2y ago
  There's a pretty big spectrum between perfect driving and a collision. FSD could drive on the wrong side of the road for miles with no accident because it's an empty road, or oncoming traffic swerved to avoid you.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- andrewstuart2 2y ago
  I've used FSD as a subscription from time to time. I can't think of an intervention (and there have been many) that was to avoid an accident. They were all things like "that's closer to those cones than I'd like to be," "okay, apparently missing lane markers that have yet to be repainted is understandably hard," or "that was a trailer speed limit sign -- we're not towing so now we're going way below the posted limit."
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    The first two examples, in most scenarios, would yield an accident if unrecovered. The lattermost is also quite dangerous on highways (because driving way below posted limits causes accidents).
- ericd 2y ago
  A lot of my interventions when trying it out were things like it going too close to curbs for my comfort, so more violations of my own defensive driving standards rather than potential accidents. But! It did have some near traffic violations that would have happened if I hadn’t intervened. But the distance between my own driving standards and accident is large.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    I don't get it. What does "too close to X for my comfort" mean if not "I believed I was going to make contact without intervening?"
    - ericd 2y ago
      Do you have an exact read on where the wheels on the other side of the car are relative to a curb when you're turning? I don't, so I give it a healthy error margin, where I'm certain it won't. I'm reasonably confident it wouldn't have made contact without my help, but that's not good enough for my driving standards. That mismatch was consistent enough that I ended up not using FSD anymore, it was more stressful than not using it at all. Also, tire-puncturing junk tends to build up next to curbs, so there are other reasons for my margin preferences than just avoiding accidents.

Were you intervening on a system that was working perfectly? "Using FSD as full self driving" == no intervention possible. Would you not have crashed if you couldn't intervene?

Retric 2y ago
Not all failures relate to safety. Self driving needs to get somewhere specific reasonably quickly, and avoid accidents.
pants2 2y ago
There's a pretty big spectrum between perfect driving and a collision. FSD could drive on the wrong side of the road for miles with no accident because it's an empty road, or oncoming traffic swerved to avoid you.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
andrewstuart2 2y ago
I've used FSD as a subscription from time to time. I can't think of an intervention (and there have been many) that was to avoid an accident. They were all things like "that's closer to those cones than I'd like to be," "okay, apparently missing lane markers that have yet to be repainted is understandably hard," or "that was a trailer speed limit sign -- we're not towing so now we're going way below the posted limit."
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  The first two examples, in most scenarios, would yield an accident if unrecovered. The lattermost is also quite dangerous on highways (because driving way below posted limits causes accidents).
ericd 2y ago
A lot of my interventions when trying it out were things like it going too close to curbs for my comfort, so more violations of my own defensive driving standards rather than potential accidents. But! It did have some near traffic violations that would have happened if I hadn’t intervened. But the distance between my own driving standards and accident is large.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  I don't get it. What does "too close to X for my comfort" mean if not "I believed I was going to make contact without intervening?"
  - ericd 2y ago
    Do you have an exact read on where the wheels on the other side of the car are relative to a curb when you're turning? I don't, so I give it a healthy error margin, where I'm certain it won't. I'm reasonably confident it wouldn't have made contact without my help, but that's not good enough for my driving standards. That mismatch was consistent enough that I ended up not using FSD anymore, it was more stressful than not using it at all. Also, tire-puncturing junk tends to build up next to curbs, so there are other reasons for my margin preferences than just avoiding accidents.